TonyG > 944V8 > Broken Pressure Plate - Broken Clutch Disk ... WOW
10-13-2011, 02:23 PM
#31
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I'm probably going to buy a wide body cayman race car with a GT3 engine, aero, suspension, etc... that's partially built.
I'm looking to dominate the GT3 POC class (which is probably equiv to NASA GT4 ish)
My V8 951 competes in GT2 (the next class up from GT3) but can't beat pro level driven 996 cup cars. Just ain't gonna happen.
TonyG
I'm looking to dominate the GT3 POC class (which is probably equiv to NASA GT4 ish)
My V8 951 competes in GT2 (the next class up from GT3) but can't beat pro level driven 996 cup cars. Just ain't gonna happen.
TonyG
10-13-2011, 06:22 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
10-14-2011, 12:36 AM
#33
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this might be one of the best 911 videos. still, i think an LS2 or 3 running a 968 Turbo S R&P and the slightly taller 5th and 6th gears would do very well keeping the car near peak hp on the bump and grind @ Sebring....
10-14-2011, 01:16 AM
#34
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Thread Starter
1. Braking. No 944 will ever brake like a cup car. These cars absolutely KILL me in the braking zone.
To fix that I would need a lot more weight in the rear of the car, larger wheels, and much larger brakes (like 2" larger), and ... ceramic is the key.
Then there's the issue of anti-lock brakes. The anti-lock brakes on the 951 suck. You need to go to a boxter or better ABS setup.
2. Weight distribution. With the weight on the rear tires, they get the jump out of the corners. I can't use my TQ to an advantage because I have to really modulate the throttle out of the tight turns or I spin the tires. The cup cars just floor it with and hang on.
3. Weight distribution (again). With no engine in the front, the 911's turn-in way faster than a 944.
4. Aero. Look at the bottom of a new Porsche
5. Suspension geometry. Enough said.
6. Gear ratios. The cup cars run close ratio gear ratios and there are many to chose from.
Etc.... The list goes on.
The short of it is that while you can make a 944 platform very fast... it won't hold a candle to a 996 or 997 (properly setup... apples to apples).
The people in 944's you see passing cup cars are only doing so because the driver is average or slower in ability/speed, or the car is way out in terms of setup.
TonyG
To fix that I would need a lot more weight in the rear of the car, larger wheels, and much larger brakes (like 2" larger), and ... ceramic is the key.
Then there's the issue of anti-lock brakes. The anti-lock brakes on the 951 suck. You need to go to a boxter or better ABS setup.
2. Weight distribution. With the weight on the rear tires, they get the jump out of the corners. I can't use my TQ to an advantage because I have to really modulate the throttle out of the tight turns or I spin the tires. The cup cars just floor it with and hang on.
3. Weight distribution (again). With no engine in the front, the 911's turn-in way faster than a 944.
4. Aero. Look at the bottom of a new Porsche
5. Suspension geometry. Enough said.
6. Gear ratios. The cup cars run close ratio gear ratios and there are many to chose from.
Etc.... The list goes on.
The short of it is that while you can make a 944 platform very fast... it won't hold a candle to a 996 or 997 (properly setup... apples to apples).
The people in 944's you see passing cup cars are only doing so because the driver is average or slower in ability/speed, or the car is way out in terms of setup.
TonyG
10-14-2011, 04:51 AM
#35
Thanks for the insight Tony.
Brakes are an easy fix.
Aero can be worked on (look at Odu's 968 nose thread)
I understand the weight distribution enigma and suspension limitation.
Apart from an entire C5 or C6 transplant (extra 100 lbs at the transaxle), how do you think a mid-engine v8 944 would perform? assuming one could stab any transaxle he wanted?
Brakes are an easy fix.
Aero can be worked on (look at Odu's 968 nose thread)
I understand the weight distribution enigma and suspension limitation.
Apart from an entire C5 or C6 transplant (extra 100 lbs at the transaxle), how do you think a mid-engine v8 944 would perform? assuming one could stab any transaxle he wanted?
10-14-2011, 07:04 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
this might be one of the best 911 videos. still, i think an LS2 or 3 running a 968 Turbo S R&P and the slightly taller 5th and 6th gears would do very well keeping the car near peak hp on the bump and grind @ Sebring....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_BLl47KQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_BLl47KQg
10-14-2011, 11:17 AM
#37
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Thread Starter
Thanks for the insight Tony.
Brakes are an easy fix.
Aero can be worked on (look at Odu's 968 nose thread)
I understand the weight distribution enigma and suspension limitation.
Apart from an entire C5 or C6 transplant (extra 100 lbs at the transaxle), how do you think a mid-engine v8 944 would perform? assuming one could stab any transaxle he wanted?
Brakes are an easy fix.
Aero can be worked on (look at Odu's 968 nose thread)
I understand the weight distribution enigma and suspension limitation.
Apart from an entire C5 or C6 transplant (extra 100 lbs at the transaxle), how do you think a mid-engine v8 944 would perform? assuming one could stab any transaxle he wanted?
On top of the much much larger brakes required (I run big red/965 setup now but would need at least a 14/15" six piston setup), I'd have to change all my wheels to at least 18" wheels, maybe 19". That alone would be a lot of money, plus all the time to install the abs setup (not difficult technically... just very time consuming).
I don't know about a C6 transaxle, but I know the C5 guys are tearing up transmissions too on the track. And yeah... 100lbs on the rear tires is pretty big weight penalty (right where I don't want it).
A mid engine 944 would be the way to go as would any mid engine car in terms of handling goes.
The other thing is that someone had a 965 turbo engine in the front of their 944. I have a couple of pics that circulated around some time back. That would also be a nice setup because of how light the air cooled flat six is, and how low the weight is kept.
TonyG
10-14-2011, 11:58 AM
#39
The Porsche Cayenne rotors are the key to inexpensive BBK's. Even the GT3 guys are running them...
I'm in the middle of finishing the 928 Wilwood Cayenne adapters. I still have 2 of these sets left for the 944/951/968
http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t11...ilwood+cayenne
I'm in the middle of finishing the 928 Wilwood Cayenne adapters. I still have 2 of these sets left for the 944/951/968
http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t11...ilwood+cayenne
10-14-2011, 03:19 PM
#40
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mid-engined 944 ? at some point doesn't it just become easier to be in a mid-engined platform designed in the last 1/4 century? go to a Grand Am race and take a look at the bgb cayman as it's going in, then coming out of the corners. other cars run a bit faster down the straights, but not in the corners. must be a blast to drive this car... looks damn good too. unfortunately they crashed at mid-ohio. John's also a Rennlister.
.
mid-engined 944 ? at some point doesn't it just become easier to be in a mid-engined platform designed in the last 1/4 century? go to a Grand Am race and take a look at the bgb cayman as it's going in, then coming out of the corners. other cars run a bit faster down the straights, but not in the corners. must be a blast to drive this car... looks damn good too. unfortunately they crashed at mid-ohio. John's also a Rennlister.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 10-14-2011 at 04:02 PM.
10-14-2011, 07:06 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Tony, how does your car weigh what it does with an "almost full interior"? I do have a full interior minus the rear seat and my car is hundreds of pounds heavier than your car...
10-14-2011, 07:36 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
this might be one of the best 911 videos. still, i think an LS2 or 3 running a 968 Turbo S R&P and the slightly taller 5th and 6th gears would do very well keeping the car near peak hp on the bump and grind @ Sebring....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_BLl47KQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_BLl47KQg
I've met that guy (Norm) a few times at Mid-Ohio. His car is absolutely amazing... I think it's a 993 GT2 Evo. All carbon fiber body. 800-ish rwhp. Welded diff. He used to be a professional IMSA racer, I think. Porsche invites him to drive their new race cars on the ring.