How much power can be made with a k27-8
10-29-2002, 05:28 PM
#31
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Mr. Anderson, you do not own that chart because you never paid for it, period. The fact that you try and cut and paste your name on it and pass it off as otherwise shows your ease with modifying dyno charts. Further, Danno implying that I have modified my own charts, which he did for you, shows lack of morality and apperant comfort with outright fabrication to futher your finacial needs. You pass yourself off as somthing you are not. You said: 'I have been building Porsche motors my entire adult life.' Is this true? Did you reach adulthood in your late 30's? Lets get real here.
10-29-2002, 05:55 PM
#32
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This is getting...no scratch that...has become ****ing retarded.
The "tech" here on what constitutes intellectual property and copywright law is a joke. I have seen bowel movements with better tech on IP law.
Statements of fact by themselves are not copywritable.
Once the statement of fact has been made...ie posted on the web...its part of the public domain.
Finally, and you might want to check your Rennlist use agreement about this; posts to a pucblic forum of this sort are usually made with the posters implicit grant of a non-exclusive right to use the information.
Forgetting for a moment the issue of who is technically correct, who the hell cares?
Can we get back to the 951 tech?
The "tech" here on what constitutes intellectual property and copywright law is a joke. I have seen bowel movements with better tech on IP law.
Statements of fact by themselves are not copywritable.
Once the statement of fact has been made...ie posted on the web...its part of the public domain.
Finally, and you might want to check your Rennlist use agreement about this; posts to a pucblic forum of this sort are usually made with the posters implicit grant of a non-exclusive right to use the information.
Forgetting for a moment the issue of who is technically correct, who the hell cares?
Can we get back to the 951 tech?
10-29-2002, 06:21 PM
#33
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We have tested the stock exhaust manifold to well over 450 rwhp so there is no real restriction there. As far as the other pionts you have mentioned, they can all be modified to get higher performance results. The main problems are further upstream of where you are looking. You mentioned earlier that you did not want to hear the fact that the Garrett are superior but the main flaw in the KKK is its turbine housing. It is just too restrictive to flow large amounts of air. From there the intercooler is the next biggest restrictive point. We have built a huge hp motor an then put stock components on to find where motors were losing performance. The stock intercooler was the largest restriction point in the system other than the turbine housing. Fabricating a custom large intercooler we gained close to 80 hp on a 3.0L 16v turbo motor. The stock intercooler would not make more than 370 or so.
10-29-2002, 06:36 PM
#34
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[quote]Originally posted by KokelnRob:
<strong>We have tested the stock exhaust manifold to well over 450 rwhp so there is no real restriction there. As far as the other pionts you have mentioned, they can all be modified to get higher performance results. The main problems are further upstream of where you are looking. You mentioned earlier that you did not want to hear the fact that the Garrett are superior but the main flaw in the KKK is its turbine housing. It is just too restrictive to flow large amounts of air. From there the intercooler is the next biggest restrictive point. We have built a huge hp motor an then put stock components on to find where motors were losing performance. The stock intercooler was the largest restriction point in the system other than the turbine housing. Fabricating a custom large intercooler we gained close to 80 hp on a 3.0L 16v turbo motor. The stock intercooler would not make more than 370 or so.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rob...thanks...thats what i was after.
i appreciate it.
<strong>We have tested the stock exhaust manifold to well over 450 rwhp so there is no real restriction there. As far as the other pionts you have mentioned, they can all be modified to get higher performance results. The main problems are further upstream of where you are looking. You mentioned earlier that you did not want to hear the fact that the Garrett are superior but the main flaw in the KKK is its turbine housing. It is just too restrictive to flow large amounts of air. From there the intercooler is the next biggest restrictive point. We have built a huge hp motor an then put stock components on to find where motors were losing performance. The stock intercooler was the largest restriction point in the system other than the turbine housing. Fabricating a custom large intercooler we gained close to 80 hp on a 3.0L 16v turbo motor. The stock intercooler would not make more than 370 or so.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rob...thanks...thats what i was after.
i appreciate it.
10-29-2002, 06:58 PM
#36
Race Director
I think there's also a difference in the KKK turbine backpressure issue depending upon whether you have the #6 or #8 hotside. From what I've heard, it's the #6 that exhibits the extreme backpressure when you try to get more than 15psi of boost.
I think Vision's car that KellyK has would be a prime example of good concepts to adopt and great tuning! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
I think Vision's car that KellyK has would be a prime example of good concepts to adopt and great tuning! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
10-29-2002, 07:21 PM
#38
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Danno, that's the same conclusion I have reached based on a concensus of various tuners, including Jon Millege.
The small number 6 hotside is fine up to 15 pounds of boost. When you try for more the exhaust backpressure can become an extreme problem. This problem is magnified with the k27 compressor as it was designed to go on larger turbine wheel than the k26/6. Jon Millege confirmed up to 45 pounds of exhaust backpressure while on his engine dyno. The number 8 turbine/housing combination does not suffer from this problem, but has more "lag" Jon does admit however that the k27 does make more boost and sooner than the k26, he just feels it is not the best match compared to others such as Garrett.
To respond to your question Mumzer, Clark Fletcher has a 2.8 with a 27/8 and autothority mass flow, although he intends to go with TEC III.
He got the mass flow and the turbo first and hated the lag compared to his 26/6 that came on the 86. When he went with 2.8 and big valve conversion the lag went away and the car became a monster. He cannot dyno it as he has clutch slippage issues. You may want to post to Email list. Clark is a regular there. I am sure he will have no problem sharing all the info he can with you.
Best of luck,
James
The small number 6 hotside is fine up to 15 pounds of boost. When you try for more the exhaust backpressure can become an extreme problem. This problem is magnified with the k27 compressor as it was designed to go on larger turbine wheel than the k26/6. Jon Millege confirmed up to 45 pounds of exhaust backpressure while on his engine dyno. The number 8 turbine/housing combination does not suffer from this problem, but has more "lag" Jon does admit however that the k27 does make more boost and sooner than the k26, he just feels it is not the best match compared to others such as Garrett.
To respond to your question Mumzer, Clark Fletcher has a 2.8 with a 27/8 and autothority mass flow, although he intends to go with TEC III.
He got the mass flow and the turbo first and hated the lag compared to his 26/6 that came on the 86. When he went with 2.8 and big valve conversion the lag went away and the car became a monster. He cannot dyno it as he has clutch slippage issues. You may want to post to Email list. Clark is a regular there. I am sure he will have no problem sharing all the info he can with you.
Best of luck,
James
10-29-2002, 08:39 PM
#39
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The stock intercooler is by far the biggest restriction on our cars and infact will flow higher numbers when plumbed in reverse ! If you look at the right side of the intercooler you will notice how it bulges in compared to the left side not to mention the low volume of the intercooler.Lindsey Racing provides a very good service that includes replacing the left side and lowering internal restrictions . 
10-29-2002, 09:01 PM
#40
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[quote]Originally posted by Huntley Racing:
<strong>Mr. Anderson, you do not own that chart because you never paid for it, period. The fact that you try and cut and paste your name on it and pass it off as otherwise shows your ease with modifying dyno charts. Further, Danno implying that I have modified my own charts, which he did for you, shows lack of morality and apperant comfort with outright fabrication to futher your finacial needs. You pass yourself off as somthing you are not. You said: 'I have been building Porsche motors my entire adult life.' Is this true? Did you reach adulthood in your late 30's? Lets get real here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nobody wants to hear this garbage.
Back to the topic, Is there a considerable difference in power between the K27/6 and the K27/8? I know there is more lag, but probably not that much. HOw much do the K27's go for?
<strong>Mr. Anderson, you do not own that chart because you never paid for it, period. The fact that you try and cut and paste your name on it and pass it off as otherwise shows your ease with modifying dyno charts. Further, Danno implying that I have modified my own charts, which he did for you, shows lack of morality and apperant comfort with outright fabrication to futher your finacial needs. You pass yourself off as somthing you are not. You said: 'I have been building Porsche motors my entire adult life.' Is this true? Did you reach adulthood in your late 30's? Lets get real here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nobody wants to hear this garbage.
Back to the topic, Is there a considerable difference in power between the K27/6 and the K27/8? I know there is more lag, but probably not that much. HOw much do the K27's go for?
10-29-2002, 09:12 PM
#41
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I have driven the car as I bought it with stock intake. The car was running fine with about 10 PSI of boost but above that it was blowing off, maybe the backpressure, maybe the wastegate. I got screwed big time by
ADAM CHEN
Pacific Palisades
Dentist
One day will be pay off time my friend. I am sure you will read this. F... you.
So I guess we all have our issues. No offense taken Travis, but I can hardly believe that the MAP can be dialed into my car without a propper dyno run. Take it easy.
ADAM CHEN
Pacific Palisades
Dentist
One day will be pay off time my friend. I am sure you will read this. F... you.
So I guess we all have our issues. No offense taken Travis, but I can hardly believe that the MAP can be dialed into my car without a propper dyno run. Take it easy.
10-29-2002, 10:39 PM
#42
Race Director
" Is there a considerable difference in power between the K27/6 and the K27/8?"
Yes, here you go:
Paul's K27/6 @21psi got 280.1 hp & 281.4 lb•ft torque.
His K27/8 @ 17psi got 311.7 hp & 307.3 lb•ft torque.
Yes, here you go:
Paul's K27/6 @21psi got 280.1 hp & 281.4 lb•ft torque.
His K27/8 @ 17psi got 311.7 hp & 307.3 lb•ft torque.
S Can't wait! 