DME VS TEC-III
03-13-2007, 10:36 AM
#46
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Originally Posted by Raceboy
How to understand this?
Please try to understand that ECU doesn't need to handle enything more than data from the sensors and to deal with ignition and fuel.
It's not the ECU that handels power or gives any, it's the AIR and FUEL + SPARK that ignites it. The more air you slam to the enginea and back it up with the fuel, thoe more power you get. Ecu just let's you slam more fuel mixture into the engine and controls the combustion.
You can ALWAYS get more power out of standalone than stock DME unless you tune it on the dyno with an emulator and then burn the chip.
Let me say this loud and clear: NO chip that is programmed by someone behind the computer and away from the car can NOT count with all the engines needs. Even engine wearout changes VE.
Please try to understand that ECU doesn't need to handle enything more than data from the sensors and to deal with ignition and fuel.
It's not the ECU that handels power or gives any, it's the AIR and FUEL + SPARK that ignites it. The more air you slam to the enginea and back it up with the fuel, thoe more power you get. Ecu just let's you slam more fuel mixture into the engine and controls the combustion.
You can ALWAYS get more power out of standalone than stock DME unless you tune it on the dyno with an emulator and then burn the chip.
Let me say this loud and clear: NO chip that is programmed by someone behind the computer and away from the car can NOT count with all the engines needs. Even engine wearout changes VE.
The quality of the ecu will limit your peak HP/TQ. A marginal ecu working on a 400 bhp motor reving to 7000 rpm could / would have processing problems on the same engine making 1100 bhp @9,000 rpm as the processing needs more accuracy in order to have even and repeated ign and injector control. This lack of "refinement" will also lead to short engine life and an uneven power curve.......
So the question is valid.
Last edited by A.Wayne; 03-13-2007 at 11:29 AM.
03-13-2007, 03:11 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Perry 951
Both motors will be virtually the same. He is going with a MAP.. both cars 18psi.
Since everything is close to the same (be nice if we had the same turbo), this should be a good test of Modded Stock vs Stand alone. I know he will be higher.. but the question is how much? TEC-III can handle 800hp.. but I want to see what what the gains will be if I just tossed the MAF/DME combo and went with a TEC-III. This way I can and not spend any money!
Since everything is close to the same (be nice if we had the same turbo), this should be a good test of Modded Stock vs Stand alone. I know he will be higher.. but the question is how much? TEC-III can handle 800hp.. but I want to see what what the gains will be if I just tossed the MAF/DME combo and went with a TEC-III. This way I can and not spend any money!
Actually since your using different turbo's the comparison is totally useless IMHO... just think about it... standard turbo v/ turbo S is a 30hp+ difference using the same factory DME.
03-13-2007, 03:22 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Heh, Wayne, your point is valid but in case of TEC3 there's no question about it's capability of processing power. More important than loadsites is actually the ECU's capability of interpolating between cells depending on rpm and load. Of course, this requires also decent processing power.
ECU's capabilities are more limited on rpm and the number of cylinders than any other thing.
ECU's capabilities are more limited on rpm and the number of cylinders than any other thing.
03-13-2007, 03:40 PM
#49
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If you want to worry about accuracy take a look at the trigger systems and how they actually work in conjunction with the software. One trigger event per revolution can mean several degrees of timing error under the right conditions.
One of the key elements of a stand alone system is the ignition timing accuracy. As you start to squeeze the maximum potential out of an engine you will be minimizing the safety cushion. This requires better accuracy from the system.
The Tec3 uses a combination of a 60 tooth wheel and an internal emulator to get the accuracy down to ¼ degree (worst case). Is that overkill? Could be. But all other things being equal I prefer accuracy!
One of the key elements of a stand alone system is the ignition timing accuracy. As you start to squeeze the maximum potential out of an engine you will be minimizing the safety cushion. This requires better accuracy from the system.
The Tec3 uses a combination of a 60 tooth wheel and an internal emulator to get the accuracy down to ¼ degree (worst case). Is that overkill? Could be. But all other things being equal I prefer accuracy!
03-13-2007, 04:06 PM
#51
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Processor speed and accuracy while very important is not an issue with most modern processors , but the real problem is the analog input /electro mechanical arrange that feeds the ecu via the timing wheel. Most triggering systems on lesser units will fail this way and produce wrong timing numbers, interject noise , causing rejected pulses, with excessive recounts , this will not be tolerated on a highly strung engine......... 
03-13-2007, 10:23 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by nize
they're not going to jump on a $4k+ product sight unseen though. 
is there one in oregon state or vancouver (canada) ?
is there one in oregon state or vancouver (canada) ?
03-14-2007, 02:15 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by special tool
Wayne - what would be an example of a lesser unit?
Won't name ,names and start a pissing contest , you can do the research and use your experience , the most obvious , would be systems using 4-12 data points per revolution, thru a distributor etc , this will offer poor resolution ..
For me, only crank trigger with direct coils, for a highly stressed boosted engine...
Systems with low RPM limits also tell the tale, say 8-9000 , compared to units with 14-22000 upper limits.. while this might seem excessive , remember motorcycles engines can see the better side of 12-14000 and tweaked honda Car engines buzz around at 10500 , so a 7000-8000 rpm range would be a walk in the park....as the total event time at 12000RPM is only 10 ms vs 20 ms @6000........
