guru racing
12-14-2002, 11:35 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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guru racing
danno,
any word on the 364 hp kit? i was interested in those but haven't heard anything from you. also i noticed you now have a digital MAF upgrade on your website. can you give some more details about how to tune this? i currently have an authority MAF and might consider this upgrade if the 364 kit is out of reach.
any word on the 364 hp kit? i was interested in those but haven't heard anything from you. also i noticed you now have a digital MAF upgrade on your website. can you give some more details about how to tune this? i currently have an authority MAF and might consider this upgrade if the 364 kit is out of reach.
12-15-2002, 03:51 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
I think I'm going to do the 364 upgrade. It might take a while, and i'm not sure if I want to be the firest car to go through it, unless you want to have me drive down there, and have you help me do it, and give me a discount! 
But I am going to pass on all further upgrades, until I can get yours.
But I am going to pass on all further upgrades, until I can get yours.
12-15-2002, 11:55 PM
#5
Race Director
"i noticed you now have a digital MAF upgrade on your website. can you give some more details about how to tune this?"
You would make adjustments to the <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/images/DigitalMAFZoneWorksheet.jpg" target="_blank">3D map</a> with the hand-held controller on the zones which need adjustment. The programmer shows you which air-flow zones you're currently moving through on the map. Then you match it up with the O2-sensor display's behavior to determine which way to want to make an adjustment.
Start out with the areas around idle and slowly take the car through each of the operating ranges. Watching the LEDs on a basic O2-meter will be fine for everything except for full-throttle. The types of corretions you'll need will be similar to the ones we listed on the ZoneSheet on our website.
However, the exact numbers and correction amounts will differ depending upon the type of underlying chips in the car. Some chips that are mapped specifically for the voltage-response curve of a MAF sensor will probably work just fine with practically zero corrections (like the AutoThority MAF chips). However, if you're using an AFM chip, then you'll need to massage the signal.
"I think I'm going to do the 364 upgrade. It might take a while, and i'm not sure if I want to be the firest car to go through it, unless you want to have me drive down there, and have you help me do it, and give me a discount! "
No worries, this kit will have extensive testing done to ensure that the calibrations are spot-on. Our goal here is to have the work done just once, by us to save you time & money. Then we would offer the complete kit with pre-calibrated MAP-sensor box & chips. That way we won't have 10-20 people going out and conducting their own R&D program (dyno-test, re-tune/adjust, repeat as necessary...). This is the case if you were to just buy a bare upgraded turbo now, and people have been asking us about that. But we decided not to sell just turbos by themselves because of all the hassles and tuning that each and every person would have to go through.
See <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003269" target="_blank">here for an announcement</a> on the introduction of the GURU-364 kit !!!
You would make adjustments to the <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/images/DigitalMAFZoneWorksheet.jpg" target="_blank">3D map</a> with the hand-held controller on the zones which need adjustment. The programmer shows you which air-flow zones you're currently moving through on the map. Then you match it up with the O2-sensor display's behavior to determine which way to want to make an adjustment.
Start out with the areas around idle and slowly take the car through each of the operating ranges. Watching the LEDs on a basic O2-meter will be fine for everything except for full-throttle. The types of corretions you'll need will be similar to the ones we listed on the ZoneSheet on our website.
However, the exact numbers and correction amounts will differ depending upon the type of underlying chips in the car. Some chips that are mapped specifically for the voltage-response curve of a MAF sensor will probably work just fine with practically zero corrections (like the AutoThority MAF chips). However, if you're using an AFM chip, then you'll need to massage the signal.
"I think I'm going to do the 364 upgrade. It might take a while, and i'm not sure if I want to be the firest car to go through it, unless you want to have me drive down there, and have you help me do it, and give me a discount!
"No worries, this kit will have extensive testing done to ensure that the calibrations are spot-on. Our goal here is to have the work done just once, by us to save you time & money. Then we would offer the complete kit with pre-calibrated MAP-sensor box & chips. That way we won't have 10-20 people going out and conducting their own R&D program (dyno-test, re-tune/adjust, repeat as necessary...). This is the case if you were to just buy a bare upgraded turbo now, and people have been asking us about that. But we decided not to sell just turbos by themselves because of all the hassles and tuning that each and every person would have to go through.
See <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003269" target="_blank">here for an announcement</a> on the introduction of the GURU-364 kit !!!
12-16-2002, 01:14 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
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[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>
However, the exact numbers and correction amounts will differ depending upon the type of underlying chips in the car. Some chips that are mapped specifically for the voltage-response curve of a MAF sensor will probably work just fine with practically zero corrections (like the AutoThority MAF chips). However, if you're using an AFM chip, then you'll need to massage the signal.
the GURU-364 kit !!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
well except i'm running 18 psi of boost, which is why i want to fine tune it. i have to admit the concept of tuning with an O2 meter scares me a bit. the last time i did data acquisition at the dyno i tried to compare the dyno AF readings with my meter and came to the conclusion that my meter wasn't very accurate. not a big if you just want to have some visual evidence that you're not running way lean. but a little scary if you want to precisely tune your fuel curve.
<strong>
However, the exact numbers and correction amounts will differ depending upon the type of underlying chips in the car. Some chips that are mapped specifically for the voltage-response curve of a MAF sensor will probably work just fine with practically zero corrections (like the AutoThority MAF chips). However, if you're using an AFM chip, then you'll need to massage the signal.
the GURU-364 kit !!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
well except i'm running 18 psi of boost, which is why i want to fine tune it. i have to admit the concept of tuning with an O2 meter scares me a bit. the last time i did data acquisition at the dyno i tried to compare the dyno AF readings with my meter and came to the conclusion that my meter wasn't very accurate. not a big if you just want to have some visual evidence that you're not running way lean. but a little scary if you want to precisely tune your fuel curve.
12-17-2002, 02:51 AM
#7
Race Director
Yeah, the narrowband O2-sensor displays aren't terribly accurate, but they can get you in the ballpark. By comparing the LED display with the dyno's, you can figure out which LED will give you a safe 10.0:1-12.0:1 mixture. Typically, this is the range covered by a single LED, usually the 2nd to the last one (1st blue dot on ARM-1). This is good enough to dial in your idle and mid-range mixtures. Then this display signal if something is terribly out of whack with your mixtures.
To really tune the full-throttle/hign-RPM mixtures, you should definitely use a dyno. We like to keep the entire mixture within a narrow range like 12.1:1 to 12.6:1.
With the digital Intercept-Link we'll provide a baseline 3D map similar to the one you see on our website. Then you can modify zone-by-zone as you're driving to match your system optimally.
To really tune the full-throttle/hign-RPM mixtures, you should definitely use a dyno. We like to keep the entire mixture within a narrow range like 12.1:1 to 12.6:1.
With the digital Intercept-Link we'll provide a baseline 3D map similar to the one you see on our website. Then you can modify zone-by-zone as you're driving to match your system optimally.
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12-18-2002, 12:04 AM
#8
Danno, I noticed "load" is one of the parameters on your 3D map (for the digital MAF upgrade). Does this really mean manifold pressure will be used as an additional signal input (along with mass air)?
Also, will the digital upgrade include options for different size injectors, similar to the MAP upgrade? If not, how would I tune for larger injectors, with lets say AutoThority chips, and 65lb injectors???
One more question. Your website states “datalogging capabilities for precision tuning”. What exactly is logged and how is it displayed (Laptop, etc.)?
Also, will the digital upgrade include options for different size injectors, similar to the MAP upgrade? If not, how would I tune for larger injectors, with lets say AutoThority chips, and 65lb injectors???
One more question. Your website states “datalogging capabilities for precision tuning”. What exactly is logged and how is it displayed (Laptop, etc.)?
12-18-2002, 07:07 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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[quote]Originally posted by jvc951:
<strong>
Also, will the digital upgrade include options for different size injectors, similar to the MAP upgrade? If not, how would I tune for larger injectors, with lets say AutoThority chips, and 65lb injectors???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
yup, i wondered about this too, will you custom program chips for us danno?
<strong>
Also, will the digital upgrade include options for different size injectors, similar to the MAP upgrade? If not, how would I tune for larger injectors, with lets say AutoThority chips, and 65lb injectors???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
yup, i wondered about this too, will you custom program chips for us danno?
12-18-2002, 10:24 AM
#10
Addict
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[quote]Originally posted by shaheed:
<strong>
yup, i wondered about this too, will you custom program chips for us danno?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sell your Autothority chips and buy the Guru chips. Then you would be able run whatever size injectors you want by just selecting the switch for those injectors(no remapping in the future). Also I believe that no one other then Autothority can reprogram their chips. Something they had built into them. Smart on their part I guess.
<strong>
yup, i wondered about this too, will you custom program chips for us danno?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sell your Autothority chips and buy the Guru chips. Then you would be able run whatever size injectors you want by just selecting the switch for those injectors(no remapping in the future). Also I believe that no one other then Autothority can reprogram their chips. Something they had built into them. Smart on their part I guess.
12-18-2002, 10:45 AM
#11
[quote] Sell your Autothority chips and buy the Guru chips. Then you would be able run whatever size injectors you want by just selecting the switch for those injectors(no remapping in the future). Also I believe that no one other then Autothority can reprogram their chips. Something they had built into them. Smart on their part I guess. <hr></blockquote>
The reason the kit is desirable is for the fuel controller. I’m trying to get out of the business of custom chips.
The reason the kit is desirable is for the fuel controller. I’m trying to get out of the business of custom chips.
12-18-2002, 01:36 PM
#12
Race Director
"I noticed "load" is one of the parameters on your 3D map (for the digital MAF upgrade). Does this really mean manifold pressure will be used as an additional signal input (along with mass air)? "
The 'load' value used in the Intercept-Link is air-flow meter/MAF voltage (it doesn't sense manifold-pressure). This is used along with RPM to determine which operating zone to adjust. Unlike the 4-**** adjusters (analog or digital), you're not massaging say... 3.5v -> 3.6v across the board. While this may richen up a high-RPM partial-throttle condition like you want, it'll also richen up low-RPM full-throttle as well, which is not what you want. So the 3D mapping adds RPM to the other axis and gives more precise control.
"One more question. Your website states “datalogging capabilities for precision tuning”. What exactly is logged and how is it displayed (Laptop, etc.)?"
An ASCII text-file is captured and it shows RPM, TPS-position, input AFM/MAF signal, output AFM/MAF signal, etc. You can then plot input & output voltage vs. RPM to see their relationship. Typically in the mid-range, you'll want to reduce the voltage to get less fuel for crisper response and in the high-end, you'll want to increase it to prevent the typical high-end lean.
"will you custom program chips for us danno? "
"The reason the kit is desirable is for the fuel controller. I’m trying to get out of the business of custom chips."
No need, our off-the-shelf chips for K26/6, K26/8, K27/Garrett will work fine once you clean up the MAF signal with the 3D massager.
"When is the 364 Package coming to fruition? "
Check out the the "New Products" announcement in our <a href="http://www.gururacing.net" target="_blank">GURU Forums</a>
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
The 'load' value used in the Intercept-Link is air-flow meter/MAF voltage (it doesn't sense manifold-pressure). This is used along with RPM to determine which operating zone to adjust. Unlike the 4-**** adjusters (analog or digital), you're not massaging say... 3.5v -> 3.6v across the board. While this may richen up a high-RPM partial-throttle condition like you want, it'll also richen up low-RPM full-throttle as well, which is not what you want. So the 3D mapping adds RPM to the other axis and gives more precise control.
"One more question. Your website states “datalogging capabilities for precision tuning”. What exactly is logged and how is it displayed (Laptop, etc.)?"
An ASCII text-file is captured and it shows RPM, TPS-position, input AFM/MAF signal, output AFM/MAF signal, etc. You can then plot input & output voltage vs. RPM to see their relationship. Typically in the mid-range, you'll want to reduce the voltage to get less fuel for crisper response and in the high-end, you'll want to increase it to prevent the typical high-end lean.
"will you custom program chips for us danno? "
"The reason the kit is desirable is for the fuel controller. I’m trying to get out of the business of custom chips."
No need, our off-the-shelf chips for K26/6, K26/8, K27/Garrett will work fine once you clean up the MAF signal with the 3D massager.
"When is the 364 Package coming to fruition? "
Check out the the "New Products" announcement in our <a href="http://www.gururacing.net" target="_blank">GURU Forums</a>
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
12-18-2002, 11:28 PM
#13
Danno, thanks for the clarification.
Maybe I should have posed a few questions differently.
What’s the largest size injector that can be used by solely adjusting the 3D massager (assuming the current chips are set for stock size injectors)? I'm guessing after a certain threshold the signal will fall outside the 3D parameter.
How is the ASCII text-file transferred to a device that can be viewed (i.e. Home PC)? Are there serial cables supplied? Do you need a laptop? Or can it be transferred from the controller to a PC, etc?
Do you have an example of the ASCII text-file??
Maybe I should have posed a few questions differently.
What’s the largest size injector that can be used by solely adjusting the 3D massager (assuming the current chips are set for stock size injectors)? I'm guessing after a certain threshold the signal will fall outside the 3D parameter.
How is the ASCII text-file transferred to a device that can be viewed (i.e. Home PC)? Are there serial cables supplied? Do you need a laptop? Or can it be transferred from the controller to a PC, etc?
Do you have an example of the ASCII text-file??
12-25-2002, 10:04 PM
#15
I did some research on my own, since I didn't get a response. 
The Intercept-Link requires something called a "serial link" for data logging and downloading the Intercept-Link settings to a personal computer.
There is no mention of this on Danno's website, and since no one responded, my assumption is it’s not included with the digital MAF kit, making the data logging tool useless.
I also found out the aim of the Intercept is to provide mild mixture adjustments. Certainly doesn’t sound like the proper tool for anyone trying to adjust for larger injectors.
Just thought I’d share this with anyone interested.
More information can be found at,
<a href="http://www.link-electro-usa.com/manuals/InterceptLink.pdf" target="_blank">Link</a>
The Intercept-Link requires something called a "serial link" for data logging and downloading the Intercept-Link settings to a personal computer.
There is no mention of this on Danno's website, and since no one responded, my assumption is it’s not included with the digital MAF kit, making the data logging tool useless.
I also found out the aim of the Intercept is to provide mild mixture adjustments. Certainly doesn’t sound like the proper tool for anyone trying to adjust for larger injectors.
Just thought I’d share this with anyone interested.
More information can be found at,
<a href="http://www.link-electro-usa.com/manuals/InterceptLink.pdf" target="_blank">Link</a>