jurg

Well,Im thinking about running a Maf and Larger Turbo soon.But was just curious as to what is the common hp output 951 owners put down with pretty much most mods aside from major applications?Just curious for an average view on it.
Thanks
Jurg'

rage2

[quote]Originally posted by jurg:
<strong>Well,Im thinking about running a Maf and Larger Turbo soon.But was just curious as to what is the common hp output 951 owners put down with pretty much most mods aside from major applications?Just curious for an average view on it.
Thanks
Jurg'</strong><hr></blockquote>

On <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/HuntleyTurbo2MAF4install.html" target="_blank">one of the pages on Danno's site</a> it shows dyno charts of a car with stage 2 turbo, stage 4 MAF. Results were 344 hp, 342 lbs torque.

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by rage2:
<strong>

On <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/HuntleyTurbo2MAF4install.html" target="_blank">one of the pages on Danno's site</a> it shows dyno charts of a car with stage 2 turbo, stage 4 MAF. Results were 344 hp, 342 lbs torque.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is this the luck of having a really fresh motor and a perfectly tuned car? Why does it seem like everyone stuggles to make an honest 330rwhp. (which I think is more than enough for me)

For example, SFR claims that 320+ rwhp with only 16-18lbs of boost For their stage one turbo. No other mod's are claimed neccassary to achieve this number. (I guess a MAF is a given though)

jurg

seems intresting enough.
330rwp.. only?
I say give me a good 641rwhp id be glad

Now back to reality,Well ive heard many power ranges just curious as to what most people were getting because even though i see some dyno charts most people just talk about what they assume to get,but i cant wait to upgrade to a bigger turbo and maf and see where i can get to.And if worse comes to worse,..i guess ill have to buy one of those dyno queen supras:-D

Jurg'

Alan C.

My car showed 290 hp and 300 tq RW with turbo upgrade and chips. The turbo and chips are now out after one season and waiting on the next upgrade.
Alan

Luke

Alan,

Which turbo and what MAF are you using? Are you using the stock FPR? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Danno

[quote]Is this the luck of having a really fresh motor and a perfectly tuned car? Why does it seem like everyone stuggles to make an honest 330rwhp. (which I think is more than enough for me)<hr></blockquote>The limitation is with the ineffective methods of using piggy-back signal massagers to fool the stock computer into modifying its fuel curve to match the new air flow increases from all the mods. The maximum outputs typically seen from even the largest MAF kits are usually around 350rwhp (like my Huntley MAF-4 kit with 80mm sensor). It's just too difficult to use the stock computers to control large 72lb/hr injectors (required for 370+hp). Using 55lb/hr injectors is about the most you can go with the stock computer.

So, you gotta ask yourself, "where will all this insanity end?". If you are perfectly happy with 350rwhp, then go with the one-piece-at-a-time upgrades with chips, MAF-kit, turbos, wastegates, etc. But it will end at 350rwhp after you're all done and $5000-8000 in the hole.

On the other hand, completely ripping out the stock computers and going with an aftermarket EFI system, like Rage2's SDS system, your mods will start at 350rwhp and go up from there. ALL of the tuners who are getting more than 400rwhp are using an replacement EFI system. Check out Scott Gomes's dyno chart on my website where he completely demolishes a Ferrari F40. You need the adjustability, fine control and adaptability of an SDS/Tec-II/Motec/Accel-DFI system to really make that kind of power.

Also check out the charts from <a href="http://www.novustelecom.net/~fkassam/dyno/dyno.html" target="_blank">Farzaan's Dyno Day</a> for typical "1st stage" upgrades with chips.

[quote]And if worse comes to worse,..i guess ill have to buy one of those dyno queen supras:-D<hr></blockquote>Don't tempt me! One of my competitors (Mike Hedlund) in the <a href="http://www.opentrackchallenge" target="_blank">Open Track Challenge</a> is driving a SupraTT. I'm almost jealous because he's gotten more than 400rwhp+ from less than $1K in mods (BPU++). AND the torque curve on those cars don't drop off rapidly like our cars due to their 4-valve heads and variable valve-timing. In fact his torque cruve is flat within 5% from 3000-8000rpm. But he does outweigh me by 300lbs, so we'll see what the race results are in May.

Luke

So, you gotta ask yourself, "where will all this insanity end?". If you are perfectly happy with 350rwhp, then go with the one-piece-at-a-time upgrades with chips, MAF-kit, turbos, wastegates, etc. But it will end at 350rwhp after you're all done and $5000-8000 in the hole.


I would be happy with 310 at the wheels but I wonder what info companies use to base the power ratings for their turbo's at certain pressures?

I have no need to make more than 310, but i will still invest in an sds system in the future.

Alan C.

Lukesilver wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
Which turbo and what MAF are you using? Are you using the stock FPR?
__________________________________________________

First, no MAF!

Not sure which turbo was in the car when I bought it from the PO. The chips are from Prtomotion. The 290 pull was with my wonderful 2mm ring gaps and ~30% leakdown.

I sent the turbo off to Scott Gomes to see if he could figure out what type of setup it is. The paperwork indicates it came from Vision Motorsports. But, I don't think it is a Kokeln. Interesting in that the turbo has a split ring connection on the exhaust side, makes it easy to get off, and it is water cooled.

As soon as I get the Tec3 installed I'll probably sell the turbo and chips along with the DME and KLR

Alan

rage2

[quote]Originally posted by Lukesilver95186:
<strong>I have no need to make more than 310, but i will still invest in an sds system in the future.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Getting a standalone EFI solution would be the first thing I would do. I've learned my lesson. My $1000 SDS replaces $3000 worth of garbage I've bought to "tweak" the factory ECU into a decent fuel curve over the years. New mod? A few presses of a button will get you the perfect fuel and spark curve...

Luke

that was originally the plan. I was going to buy the sds and a hotter cam from Mr. Milledge, but for some reason I bought the turbo and MAF. O well. Im off to Georgia Tech in a couple of months any way!?!

I'll have plenty of time to make the setup perfect.

Forever is a long time. If you know what I mean.

Danno

[quote]I would be happy with 310 at the wheels but I wonder what info companies use to base the power ratings for their turbo's at certain pressures?<hr></blockquote>Compressor Maps allow you to see what kind of flow rates a turbo can pump out at various efficiencies. That efficiency is the measured temperature increase at that flow-rate compared to the theoretical heat-rise. A 100% efficient turbo would cause temperature-increases that fit into the ideal gas law of T=PV/nR. At 50% efficient, the turbo would heat up the air to twice the theoretical amount.

Ok, so here's a compressor map of two T3 turbos with different trim:



The turbo manufacturers will then quote power-production (potential HP) numbers that correspond to the air-flow at the "sweet spot" in the center of the diagram. In the case of the second turbo, it can flow almost twice the air at 2.0bar of boost while staying inside the 72% efficiency sweet spot. Notice also that both turbos are running at the same RPM.

Luke

hmmm. Thank you Danno.

rage2

Hey Danno, any cam / cam gear tuning advice or information? Would be greatly appreciated! =)

Danno

Funny you should ask that. I'm making an adjustable cam-gear right now. Basically, you cut a ring about 3" wide out of the center of cam gear. Then slap a donut on that's 2" wide to overlap both pieces. Bolt all three pieces together. The holes for the ouside gear section has slots for the bolt holes and I'm giving it 6-degrees of cam-rotation adjustment (12-degrees crank).

I'm going to start with 5-degrees retard on the cam. This will reduce low-end torque a bit and add to the higher-RPMs. That should even out the rapidly declining torque curve we see on these modified 951s. Will also help you with low-speed traction and spinning your tires endlessly.

Contrary to what a lot of people expouse, lots of low-end torque is only needed by weak cars, like small-displacement 4-valve rice-burners. Once you cross over the 300rwhp line, you really need smooth acceleration and control.