How many are using evans cooling?
06-29-2011, 05:00 PM
#16
Drifting
http://www.evanscooling.com/water-ba...fferentiators/
I, personally, don't want any unneeded pressure in my cooling system, and I definately don't want any localized boiling. Last issues cost me a few bucks.
I, personally, don't want any unneeded pressure in my cooling system, and I definately don't want any localized boiling. Last issues cost me a few bucks.
06-29-2011, 06:26 PM
#17
Race Car
http://www.evanscooling.com/water-ba...fferentiators/
I, personally, don't want any unneeded pressure in my cooling system, and I definately don't want any localized boiling. Last issues cost me a few bucks.
I, personally, don't want any unneeded pressure in my cooling system, and I definately don't want any localized boiling. Last issues cost me a few bucks.
But trust me, whatever the term is, you want to utilize it. It is how the cooling system works. The advantage of water is that the system operates at a lower temperature. Not sure what people's aversion to a pressurized system is. But with water wetter, the surface tension issue is removed. In short, the difference between distilled water with water wetter and Evans is that the Distilled water costs $1/gallon and operates at a lower temperature, and Evans operates at a higher temperature, and costs 40X that.
06-29-2011, 07:29 PM
#18
Drifting
67King,
I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to use Evans. Distilled water and Red Line water wetter should do a better job at keeping "coolant" temps lowest.
A few facts and opinions below.
Factoid #1 - Jack Evans was hired by GM to do some design work on reverse cooled engines. The methods arent too complicated, but in the late 80's he designed a really good setup and it was his own "trade secret". GM used this on LT1's - there was a lawsuit... LS1's never got reverse cooling, and GM ended up paying half a million dollars to Evans in 2003 when the case was closed.
Higher engine temps mean more thermal efficiency (as long as you dont detonate) and you get heat soak as a byproduct. Ideally, if you could run your engine with 400F coolant temps you'd make more power, assuming it stayed together. The reason NPG+ helps is that it doesnt boil off at "lower" temperatures. This keeps hot spots from forming on the combustion chamber, which IS the #1 culprit for detonation.
NPG+ also is less thermally efficient than water (which is why it gets up to temperature so much faster). It physically transfers less heat away per liter of fluid. This means that temperatures inside the engine increase to make power power, and is also why it is SOMETIMES reccomended that you might want to remove restrictions in the coolant flow (like a thermostat, or upgrade your cooling system). It is actually insulating the combustion chamber with this heat, having a similar effect to coating the walls with something like what Swainetech does. But as it also reduces knock while doing it, there is a win-win scenario.
Popular Hot Rodding did a test on Evans. Here is a bite of what they found. "PHR just put the EVANS NPG+ coolant to the test. the subject was a 2002 Ford Ranger with twin turbo'd V6. are you ready for this...the NPG+ coolant allowed such an aggressive tune that the motor put out 75 horsepower more than it could with EG/water at 6000rpm."
It doesn't matter what anyone chooses to use. I've used distilled water and Redline. I've used antifreeze, and in an emergency, I've used water from a garden hose.
I'm using Evans because there were signs of detonation on my number 4 piston. There were also signs of my head lifting. When we pulled the motor, there were mineral deposits beginning throughout the water jackets. I've only used distilled water and high quality retail antifreeze.
My current water temps using Evans at 16psi tuning the TEC is between 200 and 210 degrees f. In my case, it's been the same as when I was using distilled water, antifreeze, and Redline water wetter.
I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to use Evans. Distilled water and Red Line water wetter should do a better job at keeping "coolant" temps lowest.
A few facts and opinions below.
Factoid #1 - Jack Evans was hired by GM to do some design work on reverse cooled engines. The methods arent too complicated, but in the late 80's he designed a really good setup and it was his own "trade secret". GM used this on LT1's - there was a lawsuit... LS1's never got reverse cooling, and GM ended up paying half a million dollars to Evans in 2003 when the case was closed.
Higher engine temps mean more thermal efficiency (as long as you dont detonate) and you get heat soak as a byproduct. Ideally, if you could run your engine with 400F coolant temps you'd make more power, assuming it stayed together. The reason NPG+ helps is that it doesnt boil off at "lower" temperatures. This keeps hot spots from forming on the combustion chamber, which IS the #1 culprit for detonation.
NPG+ also is less thermally efficient than water (which is why it gets up to temperature so much faster). It physically transfers less heat away per liter of fluid. This means that temperatures inside the engine increase to make power power, and is also why it is SOMETIMES reccomended that you might want to remove restrictions in the coolant flow (like a thermostat, or upgrade your cooling system). It is actually insulating the combustion chamber with this heat, having a similar effect to coating the walls with something like what Swainetech does. But as it also reduces knock while doing it, there is a win-win scenario.
Popular Hot Rodding did a test on Evans. Here is a bite of what they found. "PHR just put the EVANS NPG+ coolant to the test. the subject was a 2002 Ford Ranger with twin turbo'd V6. are you ready for this...the NPG+ coolant allowed such an aggressive tune that the motor put out 75 horsepower more than it could with EG/water at 6000rpm."
It doesn't matter what anyone chooses to use. I've used distilled water and Redline. I've used antifreeze, and in an emergency, I've used water from a garden hose.
I'm using Evans because there were signs of detonation on my number 4 piston. There were also signs of my head lifting. When we pulled the motor, there were mineral deposits beginning throughout the water jackets. I've only used distilled water and high quality retail antifreeze.
My current water temps using Evans at 16psi tuning the TEC is between 200 and 210 degrees f. In my case, it's been the same as when I was using distilled water, antifreeze, and Redline water wetter.
06-29-2011, 08:02 PM
#19
Drifting
http://books.google.com/books?id=06T...page&q&f=false
Good read. May help a few understand how Evans works. Real world testing.
Good read. May help a few understand how Evans works. Real world testing.
06-29-2011, 08:24 PM
#20
Drifting
http://www.amtonline.com/publication...bId=1&id=10394
Beating a dead horse, but localized boiling and the steam it creates in my engine cost me dearly. Granted, the tune is partly to blame, but this stuff works. The FAA is making certain Rotax aircraft engines move to waterless coolant if they want to pass inspection. Evans ownes the patent.
Beating a dead horse, but localized boiling and the steam it creates in my engine cost me dearly. Granted, the tune is partly to blame, but this stuff works. The FAA is making certain Rotax aircraft engines move to waterless coolant if they want to pass inspection. Evans ownes the patent.
06-29-2011, 11:18 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I opted to add a vent port at the back of the head, just because I could not find enough people who have used Evans on these cars and raved about it. Call me a follower... Funny you mention GM, as I was partly following their lead in light of the steam ports they use on their high performance V8's. Either way, everything I've read says local boiling is bad. George, when you get your car back and put some miles on it, if you still swear by Evans, I'll be your first follower. In the meantime, my HG woes seem to be over as a result of lowering the timing and/or shortening the dowel pin in my block. Either way, 20psi sure is fun again... 
06-30-2011, 08:40 AM
#22
Race Director
http://www.amtonline.com/publication...bId=1&id=10394
Beating a dead horse, but localized boiling and the steam it creates in my engine cost me dearly. Granted, the tune is partly to blame, but this stuff works. The FAA is making certain Rotax aircraft engines move to waterless coolant if they want to pass inspection. Evans ownes the patent.
Beating a dead horse, but localized boiling and the steam it creates in my engine cost me dearly. Granted, the tune is partly to blame, but this stuff works. The FAA is making certain Rotax aircraft engines move to waterless coolant if they want to pass inspection. Evans ownes the patent.
Waterless Engine Coolants
A look at the technology and SAIB NE-05-84R1
By Charles Chandler
Has the engine temp on your antique, homebuilt, or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) been running a little high lately? If it has, then Evans Cooling Systems Inc. (ECS) of Sharon, CT, (www.evanscooling.com) has something that may help.
Replenishing your engine’s conventional ethylene-glycol/water coolant with its waterless type coolant should solve your overheating problem. But before you call, you need to check out the following service bulletins by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) AD 2007-0155, and FAA SAIB NE-05-84R1 to get information about coolant usage. If you have or maintain a Bombardier-Rotax (Rotax) 912 A, 912 F, 912 S, and 914 F engine, check out the Rotax service bulletins SB-912-043 Revision 2 (11/2/2006), and SB-914-029 Revision 2 (11/10/2006).
If you are aren’t operating or maintaining 912s or 914s, but still want the “down-low” on Rotax engines, go to AMTonline.com and look up the March 2009 issue, in which AMT contributor James Careless wrote an article on Rotex engines. Careless interviewed Rotax engine expert Dean Vogel of the Aero Technical Institute. In the article, Vogel is quoted as stating that, “Rotax engines are a popular choice for certified light and homebuilt aircraft, auto gyros, and military UAVs.” Rotax wanted to keep these engines light, so it took features from motorcycle and auto engines, and created engines with external oil tanks, and that use motorcycle oil and automobile grade fuel. These engines are water-cooled, which brings us back to Evans Cooling Systems Inc. and the information recommended in the EASA AD and FAA SAIB.
A look at the technology and SAIB NE-05-84R1
By Charles Chandler
Has the engine temp on your antique, homebuilt, or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) been running a little high lately? If it has, then Evans Cooling Systems Inc. (ECS) of Sharon, CT, (www.evanscooling.com) has something that may help.
Replenishing your engine’s conventional ethylene-glycol/water coolant with its waterless type coolant should solve your overheating problem. But before you call, you need to check out the following service bulletins by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) AD 2007-0155, and FAA SAIB NE-05-84R1 to get information about coolant usage. If you have or maintain a Bombardier-Rotax (Rotax) 912 A, 912 F, 912 S, and 914 F engine, check out the Rotax service bulletins SB-912-043 Revision 2 (11/2/2006), and SB-914-029 Revision 2 (11/10/2006).
If you are aren’t operating or maintaining 912s or 914s, but still want the “down-low” on Rotax engines, go to AMTonline.com and look up the March 2009 issue, in which AMT contributor James Careless wrote an article on Rotex engines. Careless interviewed Rotax engine expert Dean Vogel of the Aero Technical Institute. In the article, Vogel is quoted as stating that, “Rotax engines are a popular choice for certified light and homebuilt aircraft, auto gyros, and military UAVs.” Rotax wanted to keep these engines light, so it took features from motorcycle and auto engines, and created engines with external oil tanks, and that use motorcycle oil and automobile grade fuel. These engines are water-cooled, which brings us back to Evans Cooling Systems Inc. and the information recommended in the EASA AD and FAA SAIB.
06-30-2011, 12:19 PM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
The 8v cylinder heads are full of pockets that can easily fill with air bubbles from localized boiling. That’s the main reason I use Evans coolant on high end builds. The other reason it that the Darton sleeves will show some corrosion in a straight water cooling system.
Here is a pic of a sectioned 8v head….guess where the bubble will go!
Here is a pic of a sectioned 8v head….guess where the bubble will go!
06-30-2011, 12:30 PM
#25
One other low pressure benefit of Evans for aging 951's, those heater cores are a beotch to replace.
Chris, do you do any special prep for running an engine with Evans, such as eliminating the thermostat?
Chris, do you do any special prep for running an engine with Evans, such as eliminating the thermostat?
Last edited by User 41221; 06-30-2011 at 12:55 PM.
06-30-2011, 02:04 PM
#26
I ordered a 1 gallon jug of evans flush fluid for my heater core. Everything else was new of course.
Stuck two hoses on the in and out of core, pluged bottom filled and drained a few times untill clear fluid was coming out.
Instruction were on Evans site.
Jason
Stuck two hoses on the in and out of core, pluged bottom filled and drained a few times untill clear fluid was coming out.
Instruction were on Evans site.
Jason
06-30-2011, 02:37 PM
#28
Drifting
I opted to add a vent port at the back of the head, just because I could not find enough people who have used Evans on these cars and raved about it. Call me a follower... Funny you mention GM, as I was partly following their lead in light of the steam ports they use on their high performance V8's. Either way, everything I've read says local boiling is bad. George, when you get your car back and put some miles on it, if you still swear by Evans, I'll be your first follower. In the meantime, my HG woes seem to be over as a result of lowering the timing and/or shortening the dowel pin in my block. Either way, 20psi sure is fun again...
06-30-2011, 02:50 PM
#29
Drifting
I opted to add a vent port at the back of the head, just because I could not find enough people who have used Evans on these cars and raved about it. Call me a follower... Funny you mention GM, as I was partly following their lead in light of the steam ports they use on their high performance V8's. Either way, everything I've read says local boiling is bad. George, when you get your car back and put some miles on it, if you still swear by Evans, I'll be your first follower. In the meantime, my HG woes seem to be over as a result of lowering the timing and/or shortening the dowel pin in my block. Either way, 20psi sure is fun again...
07-02-2011, 06:20 AM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
just a stupid question
Do you need to use the prep. fluid?
Can´t you just warm the engine up a little and then drain the coolant and then let the warm engine dry off the coolant that´s left in the system?
Do you need to use the prep. fluid?
Can´t you just warm the engine up a little and then drain the coolant and then let the warm engine dry off the coolant that´s left in the system?