What mods to run 12's from stock 944 turbo?
06-29-2003, 04:34 PM
#31
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a 951 from 20-120 will do some damage to those people who bought subarus and evo 8s.the 951 is definately know to eat up some v6s and v8s without breaking a sweat.
06-29-2003, 05:51 PM
#33
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i could theoretically run high 10s, low to mid 11s, depending on tuning, and i'd probably need to launch the **** out of it, but despite the occasionaly test-and-tune trips to save on dyno time $$, i doubt i will see the strip much. it was one thing w/ my rsx where all i was abusing was a clutch and tires... with this thing, i doubt the stock (rebuild + quaife LSD) transaxle will like 4xx+ hp being forced through it... i think if i actually hooked it up right, i'd be LUCKY if my GKN cv's broke, i already toasted one tranny @ the strip w/ my old (black) car. don't wanna do another - plus, as other people have said, race them where there are CORNERS, you'll destroy them, that's what the car's for. i didn't throw a bucket of money at the car to make it fast (1/4mi) but that was a byproduct of rebuilding things the way i wanted them.... 
btw - as a little test, with the old chassis (full street trim with a 200+lb passenger) untuned at only 12psi, i beat a 500hp 300zx from about 50-XXX <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
btw - as a little test, with the old chassis (full street trim with a 200+lb passenger) untuned at only 12psi, i beat a 500hp 300zx from about 50-XXX <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
06-29-2003, 07:51 PM
#35
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Jake951,
I haven't yet...but will do so pretty soon.
I got around 6.2-6.3 60-100mph with a 3-4 shift.
How was the weather when you did your runs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I did several 60-90 mph runs on different days. The coolest day was around 60 degrees and the others were around 70 or slightly higher. I got an average of 4.0 over those days. I just did another one a few days ago with temperatures in the mid 90's and I got 4.4 seconds, the slowest run I've done.
<strong>Jake951,
I haven't yet...but will do so pretty soon.
I got around 6.2-6.3 60-100mph with a 3-4 shift.
How was the weather when you did your runs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I did several 60-90 mph runs on different days. The coolest day was around 60 degrees and the others were around 70 or slightly higher. I got an average of 4.0 over those days. I just did another one a few days ago with temperatures in the mid 90's and I got 4.4 seconds, the slowest run I've done.
06-30-2003, 11:11 AM
#36
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Jake951:
<strong>I did several 60-90 mph runs on different days. The coolest day was around 60 degrees and the others were around 70 or slightly higher. I got an average of 4.0 over those days. I just did another one a few days ago with temperatures in the mid 90's and I got 4.4 seconds, the slowest run I've done.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Also, when I do these runs, I start out at a steady 60 mph (actually the speedometer says 62 because I know the speedo actually reads too high) and then floor it. Therefore some turbo lag is experienced, but it is not bad at these rpm's in third gear. The runs are not done with a running start from a lower speed and starting the clock at 60 mph.
<strong>I did several 60-90 mph runs on different days. The coolest day was around 60 degrees and the others were around 70 or slightly higher. I got an average of 4.0 over those days. I just did another one a few days ago with temperatures in the mid 90's and I got 4.4 seconds, the slowest run I've done.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Also, when I do these runs, I start out at a steady 60 mph (actually the speedometer says 62 because I know the speedo actually reads too high) and then floor it. Therefore some turbo lag is experienced, but it is not bad at these rpm's in third gear. The runs are not done with a running start from a lower speed and starting the clock at 60 mph.
06-30-2003, 03:35 PM
#37
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Regarding powershifting, 1st to 2nd powershifts will kill the syncros there quite fast. 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th doesn't seem to be a problem at all.
Launching excessively will also grind off a tooth or two from 1st gear. Tranny doesn't like all that torque...
CV joints are weak too, especially if you don't have a LSD.
Sticky tires will make things break even faster
.
Launching excessively will also grind off a tooth or two from 1st gear. Tranny doesn't like all that torque...
CV joints are weak too, especially if you don't have a LSD.
Sticky tires will make things break even faster
.
07-06-2003, 01:22 AM
#38
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Trancebot:
<strong>...i didnt know porsches were so delecate in that sense</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">They just weren't designed for launching hard. The cars make fantastic road racing cars and the drive train is designed with that in mind. American muscle cars on the other hand are designed to take the repeated hard launch.
That's not say it can't be done. Here's a great video of a chipped 951 smoking a mustang:
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/dan87951/87951vs96Cobra.mov" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/dan87951/87951vs96Cobra.mov</a>
The thread that has the story about this is here:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004947" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004947</a>
Previous thread regarding best 1/4 mile times:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=022293" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=022293</a>
As far as what will it take - you will need to go with a bigger turbo and an appropriate fuel management system. There are several good turners that can help you out.
<a href="http://www.vitesseracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.vitesseracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.gururacing.net/" target="_blank">http://www.gururacing.net/</a>
<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.technodyneracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.technodyneracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.lindseyracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.lindseyracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.area951.com/" target="_blank">http://www.area951.com/</a> (Under Pressure Performance)
<strong>...i didnt know porsches were so delecate in that sense</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">They just weren't designed for launching hard. The cars make fantastic road racing cars and the drive train is designed with that in mind. American muscle cars on the other hand are designed to take the repeated hard launch.
That's not say it can't be done. Here's a great video of a chipped 951 smoking a mustang:
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/dan87951/87951vs96Cobra.mov" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/dan87951/87951vs96Cobra.mov</a>
The thread that has the story about this is here:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004947" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=004947</a>
Previous thread regarding best 1/4 mile times:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=022293" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=022293</a>
As far as what will it take - you will need to go with a bigger turbo and an appropriate fuel management system. There are several good turners that can help you out.
<a href="http://www.vitesseracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.vitesseracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.gururacing.net/" target="_blank">http://www.gururacing.net/</a>
<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.technodyneracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.technodyneracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.lindseyracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.lindseyracing.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.area951.com/" target="_blank">http://www.area951.com/</a> (Under Pressure Performance)
07-07-2003, 04:26 AM
#39
Race Director
Curb-weight is average weight of car at curbside. That's no people, all fluids and 1/2 tank of gas. One half tank because that would average out the times when the tank is full and the times when the tank is empty.
87Porsche951 and Trancebot, you might want to look for published magazine reviews from the era to find performance figures for the Turbo and TurboS.
The average of all the reports seem to indicate the TurboS is about 1/2-second faster than the Turbo:
0-60 Turbo:6.1-6.2s TurboS:5.5-5.7s
1/4-mile Turbo: 14.2-14.4@94-98mph TurboS: 13.5-13.7@101-103mph
We've actually gotten sub-13s 1/4-mile runs with the stock K26/6 turbo at about 16psi max-boost (drops to 13psi by redline). The secret to quick acceleration, and controllable launches is a flat and wide torque-curve that rises linearly in the beginning and doesn't drop off quickly.
Here's a video of a perfect launch by Travis: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/videos/QuarterMileTravis.avi" target="_blank">QuarterMileTravis.avi</a> 1.5mb (uses the <a href="http://www.divx.com" target="_blank">DivX CODEC</a>)
And another of Dan's 87-951 with all the segments joined together: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/videos/87951vs96CobraAll.avi" target="_blank">87951vs96CobraAll.avi</a> 7.3mb
Now, while I think that turbo cars in general are at a disadvantage in drag-races because of their lag, the 951 is particularly bad because of the more dramatic off-boost/on-boost transition caused by the low-compression. While it takes more finesse to launch one quickly, it CAN be done.
However, one has to consider the costs involved. The 951 will require about the same amount of maintenance in drag-racing as any other car. However, monthly clutch changes and bi-weekly CV-joints will end up costing a lot more than the same repair-schedule on a... say... a mid-'80s Mustang-GT for example.
87Porsche951 and Trancebot, you might want to look for published magazine reviews from the era to find performance figures for the Turbo and TurboS.
The average of all the reports seem to indicate the TurboS is about 1/2-second faster than the Turbo:
0-60 Turbo:6.1-6.2s TurboS:5.5-5.7s
1/4-mile Turbo: 14.2-14.4@94-98mph TurboS: 13.5-13.7@101-103mph
We've actually gotten sub-13s 1/4-mile runs with the stock K26/6 turbo at about 16psi max-boost (drops to 13psi by redline). The secret to quick acceleration, and controllable launches is a flat and wide torque-curve that rises linearly in the beginning and doesn't drop off quickly.
Here's a video of a perfect launch by Travis: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/videos/QuarterMileTravis.avi" target="_blank">QuarterMileTravis.avi</a> 1.5mb (uses the <a href="http://www.divx.com" target="_blank">DivX CODEC</a>)
And another of Dan's 87-951 with all the segments joined together: <a href="http://www.gururacing.net/videos/87951vs96CobraAll.avi" target="_blank">87951vs96CobraAll.avi</a> 7.3mb
Now, while I think that turbo cars in general are at a disadvantage in drag-races because of their lag, the 951 is particularly bad because of the more dramatic off-boost/on-boost transition caused by the low-compression. While it takes more finesse to launch one quickly, it CAN be done.
However, one has to consider the costs involved. The 951 will require about the same amount of maintenance in drag-racing as any other car. However, monthly clutch changes and bi-weekly CV-joints will end up costing a lot more than the same repair-schedule on a... say... a mid-'80s Mustang-GT for example.
07-07-2003, 04:58 AM
#40
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I never had problems revving to 4k rpm, then sliding off the clutch, hitting gas. I'd always get a jump on the other guys at work. We used to "race" at around 3 am going to eat lunch on our break. Basically, it was my 86 951, a 400hp Firehawk, 273fwhp integra turbo and a stock 87 300zx. I had them all off the line... I was so shocked.. so were they...
you've got to find the spot on these cars, but a good launch can be had, and you'll feel it too. It will blow you away how fast these cars can get up from nothing.
Damn, I wish I had my car still.....
you've got to find the spot on these cars, but a good launch can be had, and you'll feel it too. It will blow you away how fast these cars can get up from nothing.
Damn, I wish I had my car still.....
07-07-2003, 05:56 AM
#41
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blipping the throttle repeatedly (similar to a stutter box would do) seems to help build/hold boost before the launch, ie, keeping the revs fluctuating between 31-3400rpm... but i doubt i'll drag my 951 any more since the rebuild *shrugs*
