Billy W

Well back some time ago Danno sent me a chip set, I just got them put on the car and wanted everyone to know that the Guru chips live up to what is promised.
To start out the day I dynoed my Auto Authority stage 2 chips that I have been running, I paid about $400 for these chips new, I pulled a 223.5hp but the A/F was off the scale rich from about 3k to 4.7k rpm and then went to a 13.5 in the upper RPMs. We did several other chip combos Huntley chips 200hp. Stock chips and boost pulled 193.3.
The Guru chip set pulled 238 HP and the A/F stayed between 13.7 and 12.4 the whole run. The Guru chips did the best of any chip set there at the dyno. I have sent Danno the graph of the run so he can post it for me, since I do not have anywhere to host it.
BTW my car has over 100k miles and the motor has never been apart, I still have the cat in place, the exhaust is an ansa cat back.

DanD

Great news!
What boost control were you using for the dyno runs? The next logical question is what boost level were you at?
Nice to see a strong increase and more important a safer A/F ratio accross the board.
I'm surprised that Huntly chips were so low, They're suppose to be 'very close' to the AA chips.

white 944 turbo

That looks like good news as I just bought a set. I hope they are as good as everyone says and if they are not then I will likely go stand alone with in a year.

Billy W

The Auto Authority with jetted banjo bolt had the boost at 12psi. And the reliaboost that comes with the guru kit brought the boost to 15psi.
The Auto Ath chips look to be rich enough on the bottom to raise the boost, but they lean out so fast in the upper rpms that I would be scared to.
And yes the Huntley chips were a surprise to me too, they only had about a 10 HP difference over stock.

Wachuko

Has anyone done the same with Chips from SFR?? I wonder what those will do for my car... I bought them and have not installed them due to the current rebuild... and the fact that the ones I got were for an '86. Hopefully I should finish in the next few months, I will have the correct chips for my car, and life will be good.

But, still, I would love to find out what has been the experience of others with SFR Chips.

86951, Glad to see you got 238hp out of the chips from Danno, cool! <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

fast951

Unless you keep the boost pressure the same when testing the various chips the results are meaningless.

Billy W

Fast951,
The object of the test was to see how the different chips would work straight from the vendor. Authority sends you a jetted banjo bolt to increase the boost and it is susposed to be matched to their chips. The A/f ration was way off on their chips, I was off the scale rich on the bottom and the it started to go lean real fast, so I would not raise the boost from their set of 12psi. The point being if you spend 400 with auto authority you will not have an optimal set up with out doing something further to the car. With the Guru set up we installed it in 15 minutes and pulled better numbers and better a/f ratios. The a/f ratio was nice and flat and looked safe enought that if I wanted to increase boost I could.

So again let me say that the object of the test was to see what you get straight from the vendor.

adrial

The autothority banjo bolt should raise boost to 15psi, not 12psi...In fact the one that came with my car raised boost to 18psi in 3rd.

Looking forward to the dyno chart with the Guru chips to check out the a/f curve.

fast951

86951,

The APE chips come with a restrictor in the Bonjo Bolt. What size restrictor do you have? You should be getting 15-16psi (less at higher RPM).
I'm not taking side on who's chips are better. Just when you state HP numbers, unless you are running the same boost the figures are misleading.
Glad that you have a set of chips that you like.

Danno

I think what they were trying to do with the comparison was to contrast "as shipped" kits with the components supplied by the manufacturer.

The actual brand-new retail APE chip kit includes three banjo bolt jets. This allows you to try out different ones to get 15psi max-boost due to the various rates of wear one would expect to see in the stock wastegate spring.

I wouldn't use APE chips in a configuration that would hold 15psi boost to redline anyway. They were designed for a temporary boost-spike generated by the banjo-bolt, then boost drops off to 11psi @ redline similar to the stock configuration.

In fact this is one of the reason APE chips go lean in the upper-RPMs, people are using aftermarket boost-controllers and wastegates that hold max-boost to redline. The chips just weren't designed with that in mind.

RLefebvre

Just a couple newbie questions here. Are there any other mods to this car, or is it otherwise completely stock?

I'd like to know what kind of power you can get out of a 951 with JUST chips and/or boost control. 240 would be around 270-280 crank. Pretty nice. Could you safely turn the boost up a little more?

fast951

Danno,

I agree with what you are saying. Any chip is tuned based on a certain configuration. APE with Bonjo bolt mods, etc...

The stock K26 turbo does not flow enough air past 4800rpm to supply the 2.5L engine when running 1bar boost. That's why they leaned the mixture at higher RPM.

Danno

"The stock K26 turbo does not flow enough air past 4800rpm to supply the 2.5L engine when running 1bar boost."

I've actually gotten the stock K26/6 to supply 15psi across the board. Even went up to 16-17-18psi as it hit redline to combat the dropping torque curve. However, it's definitely out of its efficiency sweet-spot and was heating up the air to over 300F, negating any beneficial effects of extra boost.

"I'd like to know what kind of power you can get out of a 951 with JUST chips and/or boost control. 240 would be around 270-280 crank. Pretty nice. Could you safely turn the boost up a little more?"

Rob, those were just chips in 86951's car, we wanted to keep all the variables in check. While you can turn up the boost more, there's are mapping issues with the stock AFM flapper-door maxing out at 4000rpm. This then dumps you into a separate fuel/ignition map on the chips. The higher the boost you run, the earlier this transistion occurs and the greater the difference between partial-throttle and WOT mapping. The result will be stumbling and unruly behavior at 75% load before you're fully on boost. And the stock turbo's not very good above 15psi anyway, so you won't see much more performance at 18psi.

fast951

The K26 is rated at 390cfm. Based on calculations, a 2.5L engine under 1bar boost requires that much air around 4800rpm.
Yes, you can run more boost, but no HP is made and excessive heat is being generated.

On the dyno, where a cool down time is no problem, that's not an issue. But on the track, heat will reduce your HP and will eventually destroy the engine...

Also, I was under the impression that once on WOT
the DME looks up values in the Full Throttle maps (fuel & ign). I'll be interested to learn more on the 4000rpm theory.

RLefebvre

So, the airflow sensor runs out of range past 4000ish rpm? Wow. How does the computer determine fueling? Does it have some other input (manifold pressure)?

If not... it must be on some default fuel injector table, what is it using for input, RPM only? What if the air density changes, such as a cold morning, but it can't recognize this because it has no real airflow signal?

Sorry about the questions, I wasn't aware of this, I don't even know how it would run. (Lay on the tech, I can take it.)