86 Vs. 87+ 951 worth the money?
01-10-2002, 01:45 PM
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86 Vs. 87+ 951 worth the money?
Well,
There are a couple of 86 951's for sale that are in my budget. I've found a couple of 87's and an 88 that are just a couple of thousand more. Is it worth the extra money to get an 87 or newer assuming both cars are similar in mileage, history, repairs...? I know that I'm opening a can of worms here but my search of the archives proved futile. I've been told that there were some oiling problems with the 86's is this all I should be concerned with?
BTW, the 951 will be a daily driver with some DE's and autoX's. I plan to upgrade with the goal of 300+Hp at the wheels eventually. I'm trying to spend under $8K if possible.
Thanks in advance,
Ross
93 928 GTS 5sp...Gone this weekend
There are a couple of 86 951's for sale that are in my budget. I've found a couple of 87's and an 88 that are just a couple of thousand more. Is it worth the extra money to get an 87 or newer assuming both cars are similar in mileage, history, repairs...? I know that I'm opening a can of worms here but my search of the archives proved futile. I've been told that there were some oiling problems with the 86's is this all I should be concerned with?
BTW, the 951 will be a daily driver with some DE's and autoX's. I plan to upgrade with the goal of 300+Hp at the wheels eventually. I'm trying to spend under $8K if possible.
Thanks in advance,
Ross
93 928 GTS 5sp...Gone this weekend
01-10-2002, 02:15 PM
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Ross- I'm sure you'll get alot of opinions here. I'm not aware of any "oiling" issues between the '86 & '87 ... I'll leave that one for someone else to answer.
I have an '86 (racecar) and here are some real world things you may want to consider as you make your decision.
Wheels: the '86 has a different offset than the '87-'89 so your limited in your choice of both factory and aftermarket wheels.
Spindles: the '87-'89 has slightly larger / beefier spindles. This probably is not important for street or occasional track use but may be an issue for a race car.
Airbags / ABS: '86 did not have airbags and I don't think ABS was offered untill '87 or later.
Weight: I believe the '86 was slightly lighter than the '87-'89 models ... less safety stuff (airbags / abs etc.)
If it were my decision I'd opt for an '87 or later but I personally don't think if they are comparable vehicles that an '87 is worth "thousands" more. Maybe a couple "hundred". After saying all that, there is nothing wrong with an '86 and if you find a nice one you shouldn't hesitate. Esspecially if you can pick it up for a better price. The few minor shortcomings of the '86 can be corrected with $ so it all comes down to your budget and the level of importance you place on the differences. Obviously I would not hesitate to buy an '86, I own one ... would I take an '87 over an '86 if similiar and only a few hundred more ... YES. Would I pay a large premium just to get an '87 ... NO.
Hope this helped ... I'm sure you'll hear plenty! ... Good Luck
I have an '86 (racecar) and here are some real world things you may want to consider as you make your decision.
Wheels: the '86 has a different offset than the '87-'89 so your limited in your choice of both factory and aftermarket wheels.
Spindles: the '87-'89 has slightly larger / beefier spindles. This probably is not important for street or occasional track use but may be an issue for a race car.
Airbags / ABS: '86 did not have airbags and I don't think ABS was offered untill '87 or later.
Weight: I believe the '86 was slightly lighter than the '87-'89 models ... less safety stuff (airbags / abs etc.)
If it were my decision I'd opt for an '87 or later but I personally don't think if they are comparable vehicles that an '87 is worth "thousands" more. Maybe a couple "hundred". After saying all that, there is nothing wrong with an '86 and if you find a nice one you shouldn't hesitate. Esspecially if you can pick it up for a better price. The few minor shortcomings of the '86 can be corrected with $ so it all comes down to your budget and the level of importance you place on the differences. Obviously I would not hesitate to buy an '86, I own one ... would I take an '87 over an '86 if similiar and only a few hundred more ... YES. Would I pay a large premium just to get an '87 ... NO.
Hope this helped ... I'm sure you'll hear plenty! ... Good Luck
01-10-2002, 02:22 PM
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I have found that in the marketplace, the 87 and 88 non-S cars do try to sell at a premiuim to their 86 counterparts. I do not know whether this "premium" is actually paid, but i can tell you that for your budget, finding a nice car will be easier if you leave your search to the 86's. I have rarely seen any 87+ cars in the 8000 range, even with 150,000+ miles...
I unfortunately do not have much more to add, but I will now bow out to leave room for the more knowledgable to comment on your Q's...
I unfortunately do not have much more to add, but I will now bow out to leave room for the more knowledgable to comment on your Q's...
01-10-2002, 02:25 PM
#4
Drifting
I agree. Incidentally, my '86 now has '89 front offset, brakes and suspension. The only other thing I wanted from a later model is LSD, which will come later.
So, you see, you aren't stuck with any of the so-called shortcomings of the '86 if they don't suit you.
One thing to add: the '86 engines did not have the mis-named "auto-tensioner", but I truly believe the belt tension should be checked with the 9201 tool, auto-tewnsioner or not...
If you get an '86, make sure the exhaust system has been updated - look for bellows on the 1-4 header, and a flange in the crossover pipe where it goes to the wastegate. Also verify that the safety recall on the fuel rail hose has been performed (via VIN # check with PCNA).
So, you see, you aren't stuck with any of the so-called shortcomings of the '86 if they don't suit you.
One thing to add: the '86 engines did not have the mis-named "auto-tensioner", but I truly believe the belt tension should be checked with the 9201 tool, auto-tewnsioner or not...
If you get an '86, make sure the exhaust system has been updated - look for bellows on the 1-4 header, and a flange in the crossover pipe where it goes to the wastegate. Also verify that the safety recall on the fuel rail hose has been performed (via VIN # check with PCNA).
01-10-2002, 02:39 PM
#5
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IMO, owning an '86 now, I'd opt for an '87 or newer because of the wheel offset. The later offset gets you a greater selection of wheels to choose from that will fit.
Keith-
Can you email me what you had to do to convert your car to late offset?
TIA
Keith-
Can you email me what you had to do to convert your car to late offset?
TIA
01-10-2002, 03:15 PM
#6
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IMHO, finding the equipment you want in a car that's in the right condition would be paramount over the year.
If you want ABS, then you're definitely looking at 87+.
The things I'd look for if I had to do it over are LSD, sport seats (heated would be great but I've only seen one set of those ever) and M474 (sport suspension) in a good condition car. LSD is particularly useful if you intend to seek out higher horsepower.
I used to think that all that you might find lacking in your car can be solved with enough $$$ and that's still true but I'm starting to think it's a hell of a lot easier and faster to start with a 951S.
Hugh
'86 951 black/linen
If you want ABS, then you're definitely looking at 87+.
The things I'd look for if I had to do it over are LSD, sport seats (heated would be great but I've only seen one set of those ever) and M474 (sport suspension) in a good condition car. LSD is particularly useful if you intend to seek out higher horsepower.
I used to think that all that you might find lacking in your car can be solved with enough $$$ and that's still true but I'm starting to think it's a hell of a lot easier and faster to start with a 951S.
Hugh
'86 951 black/linen
01-10-2002, 03:27 PM
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Ross,
I'll have to throw in my lot with slevy951.
LOTS more wheel choices(most later model Porsche wheels will fit) and no you don't have to keep the spindles on the old car but what a PIA. More of the later cars seem to have better brake and suspension options (M030,etc.) but that may be a moot point if they're wasted. As the owner of a '88 non-S I can attest to the fact that good cars are out there for reasonable $. I bought mine for $6000.00 two years ago with 150,000 miles. Nearly perfect interior and moderate to good exterior with pristine engine bay.
Good Luck.
I'll have to throw in my lot with slevy951.
LOTS more wheel choices(most later model Porsche wheels will fit) and no you don't have to keep the spindles on the old car but what a PIA. More of the later cars seem to have better brake and suspension options (M030,etc.) but that may be a moot point if they're wasted. As the owner of a '88 non-S I can attest to the fact that good cars are out there for reasonable $. I bought mine for $6000.00 two years ago with 150,000 miles. Nearly perfect interior and moderate to good exterior with pristine engine bay.
Good Luck.
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01-10-2002, 03:32 PM
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Okay,
Here is a car that I'm considering...I know the asking price is high but it has recently come down. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
"Guards Red, 103,000 miles, 3000 miles on fresh rebuild. Sleeved to 2.7L by Garrity, custom pistons, 86 forged rods, K-27/6, ARP connecting rod bolts, 968 piston oil squirters, improved oil passages. 50 lb/hr injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, APE chips, Tial wastegate, 993 blowoff valve, custom intercooler pipes, manual boost controller, Racers Edge camber plates, will also be the recipient of one of the new 2 guage a-pillar pods, new turbo cup clutch. 16" chrome design 90 rims. Most performance parts have been put on in the last 2000 miles. EXTREMELY FAST.
Interior and exterior are in excellent condition. No dents, no dings, no tears in the leather. The paint looks like it just came out of the body shop.
Extremely Fast. You will not find one this nice at this price. $19,000 invested Asking $12,500"
Any comments on the upgrades? Or would it be cheaper to buy an 97 stock and upgrade it to this point? I'd like to do most if not all of these upgrades. I've BTDT as far as modding and selling. It seems you never get your money back. Maybe this way I could just drive and enjoy for awhile before I got the urge to upgrade.
Thanks,
Ross
Here is a car that I'm considering...I know the asking price is high but it has recently come down. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
"Guards Red, 103,000 miles, 3000 miles on fresh rebuild. Sleeved to 2.7L by Garrity, custom pistons, 86 forged rods, K-27/6, ARP connecting rod bolts, 968 piston oil squirters, improved oil passages. 50 lb/hr injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, APE chips, Tial wastegate, 993 blowoff valve, custom intercooler pipes, manual boost controller, Racers Edge camber plates, will also be the recipient of one of the new 2 guage a-pillar pods, new turbo cup clutch. 16" chrome design 90 rims. Most performance parts have been put on in the last 2000 miles. EXTREMELY FAST.
Interior and exterior are in excellent condition. No dents, no dings, no tears in the leather. The paint looks like it just came out of the body shop.
Extremely Fast. You will not find one this nice at this price. $19,000 invested Asking $12,500"
Any comments on the upgrades? Or would it be cheaper to buy an 97 stock and upgrade it to this point? I'd like to do most if not all of these upgrades. I've BTDT as far as modding and selling. It seems you never get your money back. Maybe this way I could just drive and enjoy for awhile before I got the urge to upgrade.
Thanks,
Ross
01-10-2002, 03:44 PM
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Ross what year is the car your considering in your last post?
Regardless of the year ... sounds like a nice car and I'd have to say the price is in the acceptable range, especially if it's a '87 or later...
Regardless of the year ... sounds like a nice car and I'd have to say the price is in the acceptable range, especially if it's a '87 or later...
01-10-2002, 04:00 PM
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It's and 1987. I have not seen it in person, yet. It needs rubber and wheel bearings but I'd want to replace the wheels with 17" wheels anyway. Turbo twists are still my fav painted black of course.
Ross Edwards
I'm selling all of my toys
94 D90 SE hopefully gone Satuday along with the GTS...
If they both sell I'm going for the 87 951 in the post above on an 951S...I digress
Ross Edwards
I'm selling all of my toys
94 D90 SE hopefully gone Satuday along with the GTS...
If they both sell I'm going for the 87 951 in the post above on an 951S...I digress
01-10-2002, 04:39 PM
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Ross ... "you go boy"! 
Your "p" gene has definately taken over! ... come back to us ....
I love it! You've gone from a $2k 944 NA to a 944S2 to a ~$8k:'86 951 to a ~$12.5k: modified '87 951 ... now onto selling "everything" for a 951S! All within a couple of hours/days!
I'm with ya ... I'd probably do the same!!!
However, do yourself a favor ... take a breath before you jump!
Your "p" gene has definately taken over! ... come back to us ....
I love it! You've gone from a $2k 944 NA to a 944S2 to a ~$8k:'86 951 to a ~$12.5k: modified '87 951 ... now onto selling "everything" for a 951S! All within a couple of hours/days!
I'm with ya ... I'd probably do the same!!!
However, do yourself a favor ... take a breath before you jump!