Best Bang for the Buck 951 upgrade.
05-11-2003, 02:04 AM
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Best Bang for the Buck 951 upgrade.
I am a new Rennlistian. 951 with APE chip and Lindsey Boost Enhancer, KN filter. I am just learning about the car. I owned a 944Turbo for a month before I owned, or knew I owned, a 951. hee hee. I need some help please.
I AM LOOKING FOR ADVICE on the best bang for the buck modifications. My goal is a 300hp car that handles well, has quick spool up, and is not finicky. I need solid as a rock reliability. I prefer quickness even at the expense of top speed. I am not mechanically inclined and will be paying for all but the most simple installs.
I am getting a short shift kit. I am considering the Autothority one.
I am getting a test pipe. Probably Fabspeed or Lindsey racing is coming up with a new exhaust I might look at.
I am probably getting a strut brace. Do these really alter handling?? Undecided as to which one. Racing Dynamics or Weltmeister look like the ones to go with.
I will either get the APE stage 2 chip, or will change to GURU or Weltmeister.
FIRST, what are your suggestions on the above product decisions?
SECONDLY, after the above is spoken for, my driving lessons are spoken for, etc. I am budgetted $1500 additional to make this thing go!
MAP kit. Sounds effective but finicky; I don't like tinkering or finicky cars, I like "plug and play, leave it alone" reliability.
MAF kit. I don't know much about these. MAP advocates seem to argue a MAP beats a MAF.
Bigger Turbo. Seems the bigger turbos give you more go, but more spool up time, which i wish to decrease not increase.
New injectors?
Should the 'cold air box' the 951 is equipped with be ditched for the more, but hotter, air of a kn cone style filter??
It doens't have to be engine related. I would consider putting on a new steering wheel and ditching the airbag, but for this moment I am keeping my original porsche wheels, the upgrades would kill my $1500.
PLEASE give me your feedback keeping in mind my objective of a reliable, quick, 951. THANK YOU.
I AM LOOKING FOR ADVICE on the best bang for the buck modifications. My goal is a 300hp car that handles well, has quick spool up, and is not finicky. I need solid as a rock reliability. I prefer quickness even at the expense of top speed. I am not mechanically inclined and will be paying for all but the most simple installs.
I am getting a short shift kit. I am considering the Autothority one.
I am getting a test pipe. Probably Fabspeed or Lindsey racing is coming up with a new exhaust I might look at.
I am probably getting a strut brace. Do these really alter handling?? Undecided as to which one. Racing Dynamics or Weltmeister look like the ones to go with.
I will either get the APE stage 2 chip, or will change to GURU or Weltmeister.
FIRST, what are your suggestions on the above product decisions?
SECONDLY, after the above is spoken for, my driving lessons are spoken for, etc. I am budgetted $1500 additional to make this thing go!
MAP kit. Sounds effective but finicky; I don't like tinkering or finicky cars, I like "plug and play, leave it alone" reliability.
MAF kit. I don't know much about these. MAP advocates seem to argue a MAP beats a MAF.
Bigger Turbo. Seems the bigger turbos give you more go, but more spool up time, which i wish to decrease not increase.
New injectors?
Should the 'cold air box' the 951 is equipped with be ditched for the more, but hotter, air of a kn cone style filter??
It doens't have to be engine related. I would consider putting on a new steering wheel and ditching the airbag, but for this moment I am keeping my original porsche wheels, the upgrades would kill my $1500.
PLEASE give me your feedback keeping in mind my objective of a reliable, quick, 951. THANK YOU.
05-11-2003, 03:20 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Going on down the list..
Short shift: The autothority replaces the linkage at the trans, all the others replace the linkage at the shifter. You want to find out where most of your play is coming from and replace that. Most of mine was coming from the linkage at the trans, I replaced that with the autothority and I'm very happy with it.
Test pipe: Those are nice but lots of cash, a cheap $250 for a new Bursch test pipe will work just fine for a few years...longer if you paint it and even longer if you have it jet hot coated. The bursch is a 2.5" mild steel, the others that you've seen are all 3" stainless steel. You will see little performance gain from a 3" vs. 2.5" test pipe if your cat back is stock, especially with the stock turbo.
Strut brace: I've heard good things pricewise and quality wise about the Rennlist sponsored KLA strut brace. There's mixed reviews on whether or not they do anything for a car with a relatively stock suspension. Search the archives on this one.
Chips: Its up to you, if you already have the Autothority chips as you indicated at the begining of your post, then you may as well get on a dyno and see what your a/f curve looks like. If it stinks, then toss em on ebay and pick up some guru chips. Forget weltmeister. The top two names in 951 chips are Guru and Steve R....
$1500, thats plenty for what you're looking for.
There are turbo's that will make more power and spool earlier/faster. If you go that route, you could have custom chips burned for you. Set it and forget it, reliable performance with quick spool. Plus you'd spend about your entire budget...
On the other hand, you could throw some cash at suspension and the remaining time on dyno testing your autothority chips/replacing with Guru. (I dont have experience with Steve R on a non S turbo, nor have I heard much information).
No need for bigger injectors till you get past the horsepower limits of the stock turbo, some say they're good to 320RWHP, most say 280-300RWHP it seems.
You want reliable and quick, I say you do chip, 15psi, and throw the rest at suspension OR custom chip, fast spool turbo and 15-16psi.
On your $1500 budget you could do a MAP/MAF kit, but thats not my territory.
Good luck!
--Adrial
Short shift: The autothority replaces the linkage at the trans, all the others replace the linkage at the shifter. You want to find out where most of your play is coming from and replace that. Most of mine was coming from the linkage at the trans, I replaced that with the autothority and I'm very happy with it.
Test pipe: Those are nice but lots of cash, a cheap $250 for a new Bursch test pipe will work just fine for a few years...longer if you paint it and even longer if you have it jet hot coated. The bursch is a 2.5" mild steel, the others that you've seen are all 3" stainless steel. You will see little performance gain from a 3" vs. 2.5" test pipe if your cat back is stock, especially with the stock turbo.
Strut brace: I've heard good things pricewise and quality wise about the Rennlist sponsored KLA strut brace. There's mixed reviews on whether or not they do anything for a car with a relatively stock suspension. Search the archives on this one.
Chips: Its up to you, if you already have the Autothority chips as you indicated at the begining of your post, then you may as well get on a dyno and see what your a/f curve looks like. If it stinks, then toss em on ebay and pick up some guru chips. Forget weltmeister. The top two names in 951 chips are Guru and Steve R....
$1500, thats plenty for what you're looking for.
There are turbo's that will make more power and spool earlier/faster. If you go that route, you could have custom chips burned for you. Set it and forget it, reliable performance with quick spool. Plus you'd spend about your entire budget...
On the other hand, you could throw some cash at suspension and the remaining time on dyno testing your autothority chips/replacing with Guru. (I dont have experience with Steve R on a non S turbo, nor have I heard much information).
No need for bigger injectors till you get past the horsepower limits of the stock turbo, some say they're good to 320RWHP, most say 280-300RWHP it seems.
You want reliable and quick, I say you do chip, 15psi, and throw the rest at suspension OR custom chip, fast spool turbo and 15-16psi.
On your $1500 budget you could do a MAP/MAF kit, but thats not my territory.
Good luck!
--Adrial
05-11-2003, 04:42 AM
#4
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Email Danno at guru racing, tell him what you want he
will guide you through.
danno@thevine.net
will guide you through.
danno@thevine.net
05-11-2003, 07:38 AM
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cheetah chrome:
<strong>strut brace for best price and functionality the KLA brace is the way to go.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><a href="http://www.klaindustries.net" target="_blank">www.klaindustries.net</a>
KLA: Good people who know, drive, and love Porsche.
Here is a pic of my brace..BTW, I run Guru software too,,,simply the best.
<img src="http://www.lindseyracing.com/custpics/cust1b2.jpg" alt=" - " />
<strong>strut brace for best price and functionality the KLA brace is the way to go.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><a href="http://www.klaindustries.net" target="_blank">www.klaindustries.net</a>
KLA: Good people who know, drive, and love Porsche.
Here is a pic of my brace..BTW, I run Guru software too,,,simply the best.
<img src="http://www.lindseyracing.com/custpics/cust1b2.jpg" alt=" - " />
05-11-2003, 07:50 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Check with various tuners and go with who gives you the best parts for what you want with good service and reliability. I am also not mechanically inclined either and did some research. I went with David at Powerhaus. Check out Powerhaus.com and call him. I started out with about the same budget and then I got hooked. I've done almost everything you can do to a 3.0 motor and absolutely no problems with reliability. He has the same motor I have in his own car with 90k plus miles on it. That's unbelievable reliability with insane power. Bonus- he gives warranties on his motors. Good luck
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05-11-2003, 12:18 PM
#9
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Thank you very much!
Scott,,well if your lacking in detail in the engine compartment(which I'm sure you'll remedy soon) you certainly make up for it with that gorgeous Arena Red paint job you just finished.
Scott,,well if your lacking in detail in the engine compartment(which I'm sure you'll remedy soon) you certainly make up for it with that gorgeous Arena Red paint job you just finished.
05-11-2003, 12:43 PM
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My best two mods thus far have been the Reliaboost-1 controller ($35.00) and 968 M030 sway bars (paid about $400 which included shipping from Oregon to Florida, where I live).
Since you already have the Lindsey Boost Enhancer, you won't need the similar Reliaboost-1 controller. You might want to consider the M030 swaybars from the 968 (the 944's successor), which really work effectively and are a perfect fit.
Also, FWIW:
*I'm presently running APE chips, which seem to agree with my car more than another brand I tried. As you noted, many Rennlisters have had excellent results with Guru's chips.
*I have a custom 5" K&N air intake on my car, which I believe has made my throttle response a little crisper (not a night/day difference though, nor is it in any way a substitute for a MAP/MAF system).
*My car came with an RD strut brace which I've never taken off the car. My experience with strut braces from other cars I've used them in is that they do provide a little more structural rigidity, but not enough to make them among the first mod that I'd consider. By contrast, many enthusiasts will argue that stress bars are only eye-candy.
*My Fabspeed exhaust, put on by the PO a few years ago, needed to be re-welded in three places. I'm not familiar enough with Fabspeed to know if my experience is representative (I've only had my 951 since December '02).
*Due to a warm start problem, I found it necessary to replace the fuel injectors (car had only 79K on the clock at that time). All is well now. If you want to upgrade the injectors, make sure that you have a game plan and know where you're going with the car, since you'll affect components both up/downstream on the motor.
*Make sure that your car is in good condition before making any mods. As was suggested to me by a fellow Rennlister, you don't want to tune around a problem area. So far, I've spent over $3500 to correct problems not addressed by the PO.
*With the exception of the Reliaboost-1, and the M030 sways, "plug-and-play" has been an elusive concept for my car due to underlying motor problems that I've needed to correct. I wanted to plug-and-play almost every mod in my car (I'm not mechanically inclined). As it turns out, resistance is futile--I'm now moving in the direction of adjusting mixture throughout the RPM band to tweak overall performance. My next purchase will probably be an a/f monitor, as a prelude to a digital MAF system.
HTH.
Since you already have the Lindsey Boost Enhancer, you won't need the similar Reliaboost-1 controller. You might want to consider the M030 swaybars from the 968 (the 944's successor), which really work effectively and are a perfect fit.
Also, FWIW:
*I'm presently running APE chips, which seem to agree with my car more than another brand I tried. As you noted, many Rennlisters have had excellent results with Guru's chips.
*I have a custom 5" K&N air intake on my car, which I believe has made my throttle response a little crisper (not a night/day difference though, nor is it in any way a substitute for a MAP/MAF system).
*My car came with an RD strut brace which I've never taken off the car. My experience with strut braces from other cars I've used them in is that they do provide a little more structural rigidity, but not enough to make them among the first mod that I'd consider. By contrast, many enthusiasts will argue that stress bars are only eye-candy.
*My Fabspeed exhaust, put on by the PO a few years ago, needed to be re-welded in three places. I'm not familiar enough with Fabspeed to know if my experience is representative (I've only had my 951 since December '02).
*Due to a warm start problem, I found it necessary to replace the fuel injectors (car had only 79K on the clock at that time). All is well now. If you want to upgrade the injectors, make sure that you have a game plan and know where you're going with the car, since you'll affect components both up/downstream on the motor.
*Make sure that your car is in good condition before making any mods. As was suggested to me by a fellow Rennlister, you don't want to tune around a problem area. So far, I've spent over $3500 to correct problems not addressed by the PO.
*With the exception of the Reliaboost-1, and the M030 sways, "plug-and-play" has been an elusive concept for my car due to underlying motor problems that I've needed to correct. I wanted to plug-and-play almost every mod in my car (I'm not mechanically inclined). As it turns out, resistance is futile--I'm now moving in the direction of adjusting mixture throughout the RPM band to tweak overall performance. My next purchase will probably be an a/f monitor, as a prelude to a digital MAF system.
HTH.
05-11-2003, 12:55 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Blueman, you are so lucky that you got your 951 for what you thought was a 944!
Good luck, but don't blow the head!
- Julie
Good luck, but don't blow the head!
- Julie
05-12-2003, 11:22 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Your best bang for the buck would be to spend $500 on a helmet and harnesses, then spend the other $1000 on PCA driver's ed events.
I promise you won't regret it!
I promise you won't regret it!
05-12-2003, 03:01 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Van:
<strong>Your best bang for the buck would be to spend $500 on a helmet and harnesses, then spend the other $1000 on PCA driver's ed events.
I promise you won't regret it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The PCA driving instruction and a few other things is already in my budget BEFORE my budget. So I have $1500 after driver's ed, though I had NOT included seats, harnesses, helmet, etc. My car will be 90% street, so seems a race seat/harness might be a bit uncomfortable for street driving.
I drove a Formula Dodge at Limerock Park that went 0-60 4.5 secs, top speed 135mph. The task was to keep up with a Dodge Neon, 0-60 probably 9 secs, top speed 108, no modifications, all stock.
It was very tough, as the slow butt Neon had a skilled driver in it. Would have eaten his lunch on the straight, but by the time I caught him, well damn, another set of curves came up. He rolled that stock Neon through those turns twice as fast as I could manage the turns in the race car. So I am with you on the idea that driving skill is one of the most, if not the most, important factor.
I did notice that no one really seemed to encourage the MAF or MAP.
Thanks for the input.
<strong>Your best bang for the buck would be to spend $500 on a helmet and harnesses, then spend the other $1000 on PCA driver's ed events.
I promise you won't regret it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The PCA driving instruction and a few other things is already in my budget BEFORE my budget. So I have $1500 after driver's ed, though I had NOT included seats, harnesses, helmet, etc. My car will be 90% street, so seems a race seat/harness might be a bit uncomfortable for street driving.
I drove a Formula Dodge at Limerock Park that went 0-60 4.5 secs, top speed 135mph. The task was to keep up with a Dodge Neon, 0-60 probably 9 secs, top speed 108, no modifications, all stock.
It was very tough, as the slow butt Neon had a skilled driver in it. Would have eaten his lunch on the straight, but by the time I caught him, well damn, another set of curves came up. He rolled that stock Neon through those turns twice as fast as I could manage the turns in the race car. So I am with you on the idea that driving skill is one of the most, if not the most, important factor.
I did notice that no one really seemed to encourage the MAF or MAP.
Thanks for the input.
05-12-2003, 03:57 PM
#14
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
I did notice that no one really seemed to encourage the MAF or MAP </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If your goal is 300 hp then you don't need a MAF or MAP, both of which work great.
Get in touch with Danno at Guru.
<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
I did notice that no one really seemed to encourage the MAF or MAP </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If your goal is 300 hp then you don't need a MAF or MAP, both of which work great.
Get in touch with Danno at Guru.
<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
05-12-2003, 05:01 PM
#15
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MAP/MAF kits are a good upgrade and will get you ~280rwhp/290rwtq but your right - my impressions so far are that they are pretty finikey. I don't mind messing a little bit to begin with but once it's set up, I'd like it to stay that way - though this seems to be the case with both setups. Get a hold of Danno and I'm sure he can set ya up with some kicka$$ go fast goodies. Eliminating that intake restrication is a big deal in the quest for better performance but your suspension and brake upgrades should take priority as more power needs to be 'harnessed better' (for lack of a better word...) <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />