951 versus a 993 n/a
09-22-2002, 02:20 AM
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951 versus a 993 n/a
Hey guys,
I really don't want to start a flame war here (especially between 2 Porsches), but since I picked up my totally stock '86 951 a few months ago I've really been impressed with its acceleration under boost and its passing power on highways. I've had a '97 993 C4S for awhile and I thought that was quick (esp. above 4K RPM when the Vario-Ram kicks in), but it doesn't feel like the 951 under boost; the 951 wins when the boost kicks in, it's really night and day. The guys in the 993 board will probably shoot me for saying this but this is my seat-of-the-pants subjective feeling. Anyone else with similar comments?
Now I'm wondering if I get a chip and increase the boost, it'll totally kick my 993's *** (in the straights at least).
As far as suspension goes, the 993 wins; it feels like it's a slot-car. However, the 951 is 16 years old also, so it's not an altogether fair comparision. The 951 is a little tail-happy and when boost comes on in a corner and you're concentrating on driving, the rear can start to pop out slightly but tucks back in with a little correction; happened to me several times already. Because it's a turbo, you really have to drive differently compared to a n/a vehicle. Always have to be cognizant of boost and when it kicks in due to the non-linear power curve of the turbo motor.
Knock on wood, the 993 just sticks, even when I thought I'd wrap myself around a tree by braking mid-turn going too fast in a sharp sweeper; all the 911 guys know that's a major no-no (you never left off acceleration in a turn). So far the 993 has not gone out of line at all (obviously the car's capabilities are higher than mine). Porsche has done a great job on the 993's suspension.
So in my case, I'm happy and sad at the same time. Now it makes me wonder if I should be looking at a 993TT to replace my n/a C4S. The hunger for power never ends .... extremely addictive I'd say.
*****
I really don't want to start a flame war here (especially between 2 Porsches), but since I picked up my totally stock '86 951 a few months ago I've really been impressed with its acceleration under boost and its passing power on highways. I've had a '97 993 C4S for awhile and I thought that was quick (esp. above 4K RPM when the Vario-Ram kicks in), but it doesn't feel like the 951 under boost; the 951 wins when the boost kicks in, it's really night and day. The guys in the 993 board will probably shoot me for saying this but this is my seat-of-the-pants subjective feeling. Anyone else with similar comments?
Now I'm wondering if I get a chip and increase the boost, it'll totally kick my 993's *** (in the straights at least).
As far as suspension goes, the 993 wins; it feels like it's a slot-car. However, the 951 is 16 years old also, so it's not an altogether fair comparision. The 951 is a little tail-happy and when boost comes on in a corner and you're concentrating on driving, the rear can start to pop out slightly but tucks back in with a little correction; happened to me several times already. Because it's a turbo, you really have to drive differently compared to a n/a vehicle. Always have to be cognizant of boost and when it kicks in due to the non-linear power curve of the turbo motor.
Knock on wood, the 993 just sticks, even when I thought I'd wrap myself around a tree by braking mid-turn going too fast in a sharp sweeper; all the 911 guys know that's a major no-no (you never left off acceleration in a turn). So far the 993 has not gone out of line at all (obviously the car's capabilities are higher than mine). Porsche has done a great job on the 993's suspension.
So in my case, I'm happy and sad at the same time. Now it makes me wonder if I should be looking at a 993TT to replace my n/a C4S. The hunger for power never ends .... extremely addictive I'd say.
*****
09-22-2002, 03:54 AM
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Danno,
I'm pretty worried now about the speed and it's just stock. With the 951's it's just so easy to make more power it's not even funny.
I'm downloading your 951S vs 930 article now.
Can't wait to read it.
*****
I'm pretty worried now about the speed and it's just stock. With the 951's it's just so easy to make more power it's not even funny.
I'm downloading your 951S vs 930 article now.
Can't wait to read it.
*****
09-22-2002, 11:01 AM
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The power thing is like heroin and Danno's your connection. 
I've got at least 100 more rwhp than stock and I'm almost used to it already. Rage predicted this constant need for more, more, more! 
I've got at least 100 more rwhp than stock and I'm almost used to it already. Rage predicted this constant need for more, more, more!
09-22-2002, 12:38 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
The 993tt is a fantastic car. You can get away with a lot of heavy handed driving and not get burnt.
If you are looking for ultimate speed you may well be able to get there easier on a lightened 951 with appropriate mods. $25K in engine and suspension on a 951 will produce one quick car. Start with a nice early 951 in need of some engine work at ~ $10K and you have a $35K car which would be hard to beat.
I pass twin turbos all the time on the track, now that the Body-UN-Motion engine is history
Alan
If you are looking for ultimate speed you may well be able to get there easier on a lightened 951 with appropriate mods. $25K in engine and suspension on a 951 will produce one quick car. Start with a nice early 951 in need of some engine work at ~ $10K and you have a $35K car which would be hard to beat.
I pass twin turbos all the time on the track, now that the Body-UN-Motion engine is history
Alan
09-22-2002, 03:38 PM
#6
Addict
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For what you would spend on a 993, you could buy a pair of 951s with plenty of spare change to turn both 951s into highway missles that could eat nearly any 993 for lunch, straight or twisty.
*****- we 951 guys have only one thing to ask--
Don't give out our dirty little secret. It's too much fun stomping on 911s, and waving as we blow past in a car that costs less than a third of a 993.
*****- we 951 guys have only one thing to ask--
Don't give out our dirty little secret. It's too much fun stomping on 911s, and waving as we blow past in a car that costs less than a third of a 993.
09-22-2002, 10:04 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
The 951's do have a ton of potential and are a great platform to work from. They are stable, upgradeable, and as far as porsche go there are mods avaiblable for not too much.
There are some things the 951 will never have, the style of the 993, the flat whine behind you head, the unique driving experince that is the air cooled 911. To be the 993 with GT-3 body work is one of the most beauitiful cars ever to roll out of the Porsche factory. I like to look at the 951, but it is not something that is just awe inspiring.
In a perfect world I would own both (and a 930, and a 928, and a 914) but in my limited budget world I opt for the 951, with the money to buy the 993 I think I would still be driving the 951 with a bit more hp than stock...
There are some things the 951 will never have, the style of the 993, the flat whine behind you head, the unique driving experince that is the air cooled 911. To be the 993 with GT-3 body work is one of the most beauitiful cars ever to roll out of the Porsche factory. I like to look at the 951, but it is not something that is just awe inspiring.
In a perfect world I would own both (and a 930, and a 928, and a 914) but in my limited budget world I opt for the 951, with the money to buy the 993 I think I would still be driving the 951 with a bit more hp than stock...
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09-23-2002, 12:24 AM
#8
Race Director
"The power thing is like heroin and Danno's your connection.
When I grow up, I want to be a go-fast crack dealer!
<a href="http://www.nsxfiles.com/sears_point_2000.htm" target="_blank">NSX files.com: Chapter 60 - Sears Point & The Pipe</a>
When I grow up, I want to be a go-fast crack dealer!
<a href="http://www.nsxfiles.com/sears_point_2000.htm" target="_blank">NSX files.com: Chapter 60 - Sears Point & The Pipe</a>
09-23-2002, 03:59 AM
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In retrospect, I should have bought the 951 first and then shopped around for another Porsche (w/ a turbo of course ). I haven't been in a 993TT yet, but it has 400+ turbo HP so that's about roughly twice what my stock 951 puts out. That's on the edge of hairy and scary if the torque sensation scales up linearly. Probably get whip-lash driving that sucker everyday.
The 951 is definitely a "secret". If it wasn't for the postings on this board, I would have never considered it seriously. The n/a 944's just don't have the HP but the 951 is a totally different type of vehicle. Glad I'm in the club now.
I'm still putting the 951 back together after buying it from the previous owner. Actually it was a decent vehicle, but needed the maintenance done as well as a paint job, everything else checked out well in the PPI. I just found out that my seals are leaking (this after I just replaced the seals; the vehicle was dry before I put the seals in; I think the crank seal in the kit was a bit larger than normal).
Once I get the basics done and establish a baseline, I'll upgrade to Danno's chips and see what that can do. I'm hoping that's enough to satisfy my thirst. I'm pretty sure with that setup (sad to say) it'll put down the 993 easily .
Once I get the upgrade I'll have to do a head-to-head comparison and see how both cars run. That should be interesting.
*****
). I haven't been in a 993TT yet, but it has 400+ turbo HP so that's about roughly twice what my stock 951 puts out. That's on the edge of hairy and scary if the torque sensation scales up linearly. Probably get whip-lash driving that sucker everyday.The 951 is definitely a "secret". If it wasn't for the postings on this board, I would have never considered it seriously. The n/a 944's just don't have the HP but the 951 is a totally different type of vehicle. Glad I'm in the club now.
I'm still putting the 951 back together after buying it from the previous owner. Actually it was a decent vehicle, but needed the maintenance done as well as a paint job, everything else checked out well in the PPI. I just found out that my seals are leaking (this after I just replaced the seals; the vehicle was dry before I put the seals in; I think the crank seal in the kit was a bit larger than normal).
Once I get the basics done and establish a baseline, I'll upgrade to Danno's chips and see what that can do. I'm hoping that's enough to satisfy my thirst. I'm pretty sure with that setup (sad to say) it'll put down the 993 easily
.Once I get the upgrade I'll have to do a head-to-head comparison and see how both cars run. That should be interesting.
*****
09-23-2002, 11:29 AM
#10
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I drive a 951 and a Boxster. I've looked at and fallen in love with 993's, 928'S, '87 911 turbo's, and recently C4 964's. I've concluded that the ony solutions is:
OWN ONE OF EACH AT SOME POINT IN YOUR LIFE
When your finished, begin again.
By the way. With hardly any mod the 951 is faster(not quicker) than the 993. With the right wheels and tires it handles better. Higher upkeep though. At least, mine has been. Have fun!
OWN ONE OF EACH AT SOME POINT IN YOUR LIFE
When your finished, begin again.
By the way. With hardly any mod the 951 is faster(not quicker) than the 993. With the right wheels and tires it handles better. Higher upkeep though. At least, mine has been. Have fun!
