question 2.7 Sleeved block
04-20-2011, 11:59 PM
#46
If interested, go to their website and check out their Porsche section. You will not see the 944/951 listed, but they will custom make whatever you want. Garrity and US Chrome recommended JE based on their success with projects done by US Chrome like mine. I was good with that, as their one year warranty was based on me tracking the car.
For informational purposes, my engine has Darton MID wet sleeves.
04-21-2011, 12:02 AM
#47
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I thought the 2.7 crank was the same as the 2.5 L. crank. The 3.0 stroked the 2.7 105mm bore to get to the 3.0 l displacement. I am running a 2.5 L 100mm bore with a 3.0 L crank that results in a little less than a 2.8 L engine. Please let me know where I am wrong in this.
late block + early crank = (factory) 2.7
early block + late crank = 2.8
late block + late crank = 3.0
early block + early crank = 2.5
04-21-2011, 12:50 AM
#48
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what sleeves are those? They don't look like flanged sleeves. Why aren't they?
JE's cannot be used on the alusil bore. I think that has been established.
Who know's what the cam of the JE's is compared to let's say the Wossners....maybe Chris White can chime in?
JE's cannot be used on the alusil bore. I think that has been established.
Who know's what the cam of the JE's is compared to let's say the Wossners....maybe Chris White can chime in?
04-21-2011, 03:28 AM
#50
Drifting
In stock bores, I'd stick with Mahle.
http://www.broadfootracing.com/944%20Parts%20Engine.htm
04-21-2011, 03:31 AM
#51
Drifting
I know they will make custom whatever I want, but it comes down to price, and end result that the consumer is looking for. For me, personally, I don't like my engine sounding like a diesel when I first start it up. Maybe that's personal preference, but it was a point I stuck to. In my statement about the extra material in regards to valve reliefs for domestic engines, they will machine the bottom of the piston flat for an additional charge...seems silly. There are plenty of successful builds out there with JE pistons, I am by no means arguing that fact, but when I had a choice with which pistons to use, I chose a different route.
For informational purposes, my engine has Darton MID wet sleeves.
For informational purposes, my engine has Darton MID wet sleeves.
You know I'm wanting to meet with you when I'm in SLC. Trust me, my motor sounds nothing like my Duramax. Cold, hot, or on boost. Looking forward to seeing your car.
Don't understand your point.
04-21-2011, 09:28 AM
#52
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A couple of thoughts – (some form early posts on this thread!)
Lart’s 2.7 looks like a good find – but I would highly recommend checking the deck height of the sleeves, if not done right the dry sleeves have a tendency to sink after a couple of good heat cycles and act exactly like the Ebay poster noted. A skim cut on the bock surface will fix that (easy enough with the engine out of the car).
The rod length of a 2.5 (and 2.6 or 2.7) is the same as the 2.8 or 3.0 – unless they are going to try the really old school short rod stroker (and that went out of style with parachute pants!)
Nothing wrong with the head gasket mod to use a 3.0 gasket on a 2.5 – you need to add a little RTV around the ‘ear’. I still use this on Oringed heads because the Orings don’t work well with MLS gaskets.
With the price of a used scored block being quite low there is no reason to repair a cracked block with welding. Get a sound block from Lart or use MID sleeves (the stock cylinder is machined out so a typical crack is not a problem).
As for ‘other’ pistons – I have been using Wossners for quite a while now, I like the product and just as important I like the way the company works – they send me engineering drawings if full detail before making the piston. I can spec anything out – compression ratio, pin height, ring type and location, cam design, box or regular bridging, quench shape and even an Alusil compatible coating. ($1k for the custom designed pistons, pins and rings – a little extra for Alusil coating!)
The JE 2618 alloy pistons have a greater thermal expansion rate than the stock pistons and the 4032 alloy aftermarket pistons. In my many years of building engines I have found one pretty basic rule with sleeved motors – if you use a JE 2618 alloy pistons and don’t hear a little piston slap on start up then you are going to have issues when you run the engine hard. If the ambient temp is low it sounds worse. Under 50 degree air temps it should sound like a worn out Cummings for the first minute, the slap goes away as it warms up. Remember –this applies to sleeved engines – I have not used JEs in a Alusil bore.
And just in case anybody still has a question - the 2.7 engine IS a 3.0 block with a 2.5 crank in it.
The cam design on any custom piston should be exactly as the builder specs – I know that I spec out what I want. If you ask for ‘off the shelf’ designs from a piston manufacturer you will get whatever they feel like giving you. If you ask for a 944 piston from JE and don’t provide some exacting specs you will get a piston with the Chevy valve reliefs pockets still showing on the underside on the piston (as ‘Modded’ said!). That’s quite a few grams of wasted weight as well as some proof that the original forging was not intended for a 944….
Sorry for the disjointed answers…I am catching up – been too busy to do the daily Rennlist checks this week!
Lart’s 2.7 looks like a good find – but I would highly recommend checking the deck height of the sleeves, if not done right the dry sleeves have a tendency to sink after a couple of good heat cycles and act exactly like the Ebay poster noted. A skim cut on the bock surface will fix that (easy enough with the engine out of the car).
The rod length of a 2.5 (and 2.6 or 2.7) is the same as the 2.8 or 3.0 – unless they are going to try the really old school short rod stroker (and that went out of style with parachute pants!)
Nothing wrong with the head gasket mod to use a 3.0 gasket on a 2.5 – you need to add a little RTV around the ‘ear’. I still use this on Oringed heads because the Orings don’t work well with MLS gaskets.
With the price of a used scored block being quite low there is no reason to repair a cracked block with welding. Get a sound block from Lart or use MID sleeves (the stock cylinder is machined out so a typical crack is not a problem).
As for ‘other’ pistons – I have been using Wossners for quite a while now, I like the product and just as important I like the way the company works – they send me engineering drawings if full detail before making the piston. I can spec anything out – compression ratio, pin height, ring type and location, cam design, box or regular bridging, quench shape and even an Alusil compatible coating. ($1k for the custom designed pistons, pins and rings – a little extra for Alusil coating!)
The JE 2618 alloy pistons have a greater thermal expansion rate than the stock pistons and the 4032 alloy aftermarket pistons. In my many years of building engines I have found one pretty basic rule with sleeved motors – if you use a JE 2618 alloy pistons and don’t hear a little piston slap on start up then you are going to have issues when you run the engine hard. If the ambient temp is low it sounds worse. Under 50 degree air temps it should sound like a worn out Cummings for the first minute, the slap goes away as it warms up. Remember –this applies to sleeved engines – I have not used JEs in a Alusil bore.
And just in case anybody still has a question - the 2.7 engine IS a 3.0 block with a 2.5 crank in it.
The cam design on any custom piston should be exactly as the builder specs – I know that I spec out what I want. If you ask for ‘off the shelf’ designs from a piston manufacturer you will get whatever they feel like giving you. If you ask for a 944 piston from JE and don’t provide some exacting specs you will get a piston with the Chevy valve reliefs pockets still showing on the underside on the piston (as ‘Modded’ said!). That’s quite a few grams of wasted weight as well as some proof that the original forging was not intended for a 944….
Sorry for the disjointed answers…I am catching up – been too busy to do the daily Rennlist checks this week!
04-21-2011, 11:08 AM
#53
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A couple of thoughts – (some form early posts on this thread!)
Lart’s 2.7 looks like a good find – but I would highly recommend checking the deck height of the sleeves, if not done right the dry sleeves have a tendency to sink after a couple of good heat cycles and act exactly like the Ebay poster noted. A skim cut on the bock surface will fix that (easy enough with the engine out of the car).
The rod length of a 2.5 (and 2.6 or 2.7) is the same as the 2.8 or 3.0 – unless they are going to try the really old school short rod stroker (and that went out of style with parachute pants!)
Nothing wrong with the head gasket mod to use a 3.0 gasket on a 2.5 – you need to add a little RTV around the ‘ear’. I still use this on Oringed heads because the Orings don’t work well with MLS gaskets.
With the price of a used scored block being quite low there is no reason to repair a cracked block with welding. Get a sound block from Lart or use MID sleeves (the stock cylinder is machined out so a typical crack is not a problem).
As for ‘other’ pistons – I have been using Wossners for quite a while now, I like the product and just as important I like the way the company works – they send me engineering drawings if full detail before making the piston. I can spec anything out – compression ratio, pin height, ring type and location, cam design, box or regular bridging, quench shape and even an Alusil compatible coating. ($1k for the custom designed pistons, pins and rings – a little extra for Alusil coating!)
The JE 2618 alloy pistons have a greater thermal expansion rate than the stock pistons and the 4032 alloy aftermarket pistons. In my many years of building engines I have found one pretty basic rule with sleeved motors – if you use a JE 2618 alloy pistons and don’t hear a little piston slap on start up then you are going to have issues when you run the engine hard. If the ambient temp is low it sounds worse. Under 50 degree air temps it should sound like a worn out Cummings for the first minute, the slap goes away as it warms up. Remember –this applies to sleeved engines – I have not used JEs in a Alusil bore.
And just in case anybody still has a question - the 2.7 engine IS a 3.0 block with a 2.5 crank in it.
The cam design on any custom piston should be exactly as the builder specs – I know that I spec out what I want. If you ask for ‘off the shelf’ designs from a piston manufacturer you will get whatever they feel like giving you. If you ask for a 944 piston from JE and don’t provide some exacting specs you will get a piston with the Chevy valve reliefs pockets still showing on the underside on the piston (as ‘Modded’ said!). That’s quite a few grams of wasted weight as well as some proof that the original forging was not intended for a 944….
Sorry for the disjointed answers…I am catching up – been too busy to do the daily Rennlist checks this week!
Lart’s 2.7 looks like a good find – but I would highly recommend checking the deck height of the sleeves, if not done right the dry sleeves have a tendency to sink after a couple of good heat cycles and act exactly like the Ebay poster noted. A skim cut on the bock surface will fix that (easy enough with the engine out of the car).
The rod length of a 2.5 (and 2.6 or 2.7) is the same as the 2.8 or 3.0 – unless they are going to try the really old school short rod stroker (and that went out of style with parachute pants!)
Nothing wrong with the head gasket mod to use a 3.0 gasket on a 2.5 – you need to add a little RTV around the ‘ear’. I still use this on Oringed heads because the Orings don’t work well with MLS gaskets.
With the price of a used scored block being quite low there is no reason to repair a cracked block with welding. Get a sound block from Lart or use MID sleeves (the stock cylinder is machined out so a typical crack is not a problem).
As for ‘other’ pistons – I have been using Wossners for quite a while now, I like the product and just as important I like the way the company works – they send me engineering drawings if full detail before making the piston. I can spec anything out – compression ratio, pin height, ring type and location, cam design, box or regular bridging, quench shape and even an Alusil compatible coating. ($1k for the custom designed pistons, pins and rings – a little extra for Alusil coating!)
The JE 2618 alloy pistons have a greater thermal expansion rate than the stock pistons and the 4032 alloy aftermarket pistons. In my many years of building engines I have found one pretty basic rule with sleeved motors – if you use a JE 2618 alloy pistons and don’t hear a little piston slap on start up then you are going to have issues when you run the engine hard. If the ambient temp is low it sounds worse. Under 50 degree air temps it should sound like a worn out Cummings for the first minute, the slap goes away as it warms up. Remember –this applies to sleeved engines – I have not used JEs in a Alusil bore.
And just in case anybody still has a question - the 2.7 engine IS a 3.0 block with a 2.5 crank in it.
The cam design on any custom piston should be exactly as the builder specs – I know that I spec out what I want. If you ask for ‘off the shelf’ designs from a piston manufacturer you will get whatever they feel like giving you. If you ask for a 944 piston from JE and don’t provide some exacting specs you will get a piston with the Chevy valve reliefs pockets still showing on the underside on the piston (as ‘Modded’ said!). That’s quite a few grams of wasted weight as well as some proof that the original forging was not intended for a 944….
Sorry for the disjointed answers…I am catching up – been too busy to do the daily Rennlist checks this week!
Second this is a 2.5L block sleeved to 2.7L?? 2.8L?? I am not sure now since I found documentation where the first owner described it as 2.8L, the bore dia is 105.5mm and I am not sure if it is a 3.L crank. It had a OEM steel flywheel lightened to 12lbs and stamped with a serial # and the flywheel has the similar # do you recognize this?
04-21-2011, 12:48 PM
#54
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Whoever identifies the stamped signature is the price winner, a guy already hinted this is a pre 2000 work, it's a balance engined.
04-21-2011, 02:03 PM
#55
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Is it Vitesse? Typically these types of stamp marks are done to assign a numbering system to keep things together when taking them to the machine shop/cleaning/etc..... also, for future record keeping to verify what was done tot he components during modification in case of failure/tampering/etc....
04-21-2011, 02:08 PM
#56
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No, it starts with A and is not Anderson Motorssports
04-21-2011, 04:11 PM
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04-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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