I was driving back from the Acura dealer in my dads 3.5RL just had a carwash and oilchange weather was beautiful sunroof open windows closed going east on 94 from Highland Park (for the Chicagoers here). The whole drive back was awkward because it was around 2pm on a weekday, just after the lunch rush and before the 5oclock traffic. So it's me in the RL with 5 lanes of virtually nonexistant traffic when suddenly...

I see those beautiful two little audi zenon lights (audi does make the best zenons). So it's Highland Park rich area I'm assuming just some guy in his A8 when I realize the guys creaping excedingly fast on my tail (I was doing 75-80).

Before I know it he FLYS by me in a souped up Silver S4 with NOTHING stock on it. The car sounded like a rocket it had 18 inch rims, body kit, the guy HAD to of spent 60K on his car and boy was he flying. So I floored it hoping to get a better look at the S4 (the RL is a slug weighs about 8,000 pounds and is as big as they get for frong wheel drive)...I'm at 100mph now and he's STILL slowely creapin away.....when suddenly....

VVVVVVVVSSSSSHHHHHHHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

a black 951 ZOOMZ by me (I was doing 100 so he must of been doing 120+)...at this point I'm going crazy because I love BOTH of those cars and they are defenitely racing.....i FLOOR it all the way and i'm thinking to myself:

"there's no way this 951 is going to keep up with a souped up S4"

I'm going 120 by now and both cars are STILL getting smaller and smaller when suddenly the 951 blows a HUGE cloud of black smoke and BOOM!!!! he takes off like a rocket passing the S4 on the left and WASTING him....the S4 was DEFENITELY trying to keep up but just couldnt.....the dude in the 951 was GONE i kept up trying to see if he was anywhere to be seen but he was gone....I caught up with the S4 and he had a rather surprised look on his face.....

I dont know what that black smoke was but I know that ferdinand would be proud...i was TREMENDOUSLY surprised...

 

Wow Tariq, great story. My guess would be that the 944 Turbo owner had adjustable boost and just cranked it up on the fly. That or nitrous. Who knows.

I just bought an Audi S4, blk on blk 6 spd and I've been talking to all the tuner shops and a few race teams I came across at California Speedway last weekend about the safe mods to make to an S4. The consensus was the bottom end can handle 500 hp with no mods. If you want to go above a stage II chip, swapping out the turbos, downpipes, intercoolers, 4 inch exhaust and few other odds and ends are recommened, to say nothing of the suspension and brake changes to be made. It's not as expensive as you'd imagine though. Most of the Audi race cars I came across were in the 420 to 450 hp range. On the other hand PowerHaus seems to get 500+hp out of 944 Turbos consistently. MTM USA has an RS4 kit good for 510hp and 443lbs of torque too.

On the 10 west of LA headed east in my 928 S4 I got my *** handed to me by a 944 Turbo. Didn't realize it was modified until he walked me on the left. I had it floored in third and watched helplessly as he went by. 4 or 5 car lengths was as close as I could get, which was close enough to see the sewer pipe of an exhaust he had underneath that badboy.

See <a href="http://www.marcus3.com" target="_blank">www.marcus3.com</a> for the answer I wish I had that day. 490rwhp and 510lbs torque on the dyno.

<img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />

 

I only have a very mildly tweaked '86 951 (chips and MBC) but I've been dying for an opportunity to run with an modded S4. &lt;insert disclaimer about not supporting or encouraging street racing&gt; I've had a chance to run at Summit Point with a very worked up S4 with coilovers and the basic power mods (chips, exhaust, etc) that was running a claimed 330hp. Left him for the dust but there's no way of knowing how good a driver he really was and at a minimum, the S4 is 600lbs heavier than my 951.

On the way to Summit Point I ran a couple times with against a friend's 2002 MCoupe. Up to 140mph I was pulling on him. Above 140mph, my declining boost and his superior horsepower had him catching up. But still held him off until 160mph. That speaks more to the distance I built up by 140 rather than my ride's power above 140.

I ran better times than he did at the track but being our first time at that track, I can't say that he might not run better times than I after we both have some more time at Summit under our belts. He has DSC to lean on.... I prefer to drive old fashioned without any aids.

But I digress...

-Hugh
'86 951

 

Hugh I hear ya. Many times people are under the assumption that just because something is new, it's automatically going to be faster. When you spend 50K plus on car you certainly don't want to get beat by something costing a fraction of that. Of course there is improved technology which when modified makes things even that much better but by and large, hp and torque are hp and torque no matter what car they're in. Last weekend I watched Mark Anderson in his old 928 6.5L destroy almost the entire field of mostly 911, 993's and 996's in GT2R at Willow Springs. All except for one car, a 996 factory ride and a twin turbo 996 not in his class.

Anyway what made me go with the Audi S4 over the M3 was driving a chipped S4. It's a night and day difference to and I thought it was faster than a stock new generation M3. You certainly didn't have to drive it like you robbed a bank to feel the power. Also has a lot more torque.

K

 

"Mark Anderson in his old 928 6.5L destroy almost the entire field of mostly 911, 993's and 996's in GT2R at Willow Springs."

I would've loved to see Tilo Steurer's supercharged 928! He was passing everyone like they were standing still in Doug's NSX-files tape of the '99 L.A. Street Race. Last I heard, that car was on the east coast somewhere...

 

Yeah Danno, I have no idea what the Tilo car would've done against the competition but with turbochargers or supercharges he wouldn't be in the same class. He would've gone up against the 996 twin turbo which was way out front for the entire race but if he was handling NSX's it's conceivable he wouldn't have too much trouble with the 996twin. Apparently you can get as wild as you want including nitrous while staying normally aspirated in Mark Andersons class.

<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

 

That puff of black smoke you saw out the back of the 951 was probably just his modded fuel system backing up and running rich between shifts, happens often on turbo cars......either comes out as a puff of smoke or as a flame . Anyway, sounds like an exciting race you witnessed.

later,

amir

 

I'd take the S4 over the new M3 anyday. (would have to be black on black because I can't stand those color coded seats-no offense to those that have them just not my cup of tea)

With the money you save on the initial cost of the S4 vs. the M3 you can modify it to it's full potential.

Also, S4 can drive well in the rain and snow, if you HAVE too. (check my location) Ontoppa that the new M3's have VERY iffy reliability reports. Looks like Beamer won't have the same success they had with the previous model. (Although my favorites were the original M3's-88-91 I believe)

-the M5 is a totally different story as it is the perfect automobile (I'd chose it over the S6 even though it has Quattro...then again according to my location I'll never drive an S6 unless it's used and mid 90's)

Atleast America made the cut for the 951's. Atleast we have the Stealth fighter.

 

Kaz, I know what you mean about the S4. My friend with the MCoupe had a modified S4 before he bought the M. He consistently mentions how he misses the immense torque the S4 had. Those new M motors make 315HP(in the coupe) but only make 275 torque.

A chipped S4 with exhaust can see 330hp and more than that number in torque. Since the new M3 weighs about 3600 (about the same as the S4), the new S4 should outrun the M in acceleration.

I actually love 4 door, small to mid-size german sedans so a chipped S4 is my version of the perfect street car. I was all set to buy an Imola Yellow S4 before I ended up making a career change that no longer required me to drive to work. That opened up the door to buying the somewhat less practical 951 for track fun.

-Hugh
'86 951

 

Ahh the Imola Yellow. I thought the M engines were making 333hp in the coupe and it was 315 in the Z coupes? I do like the way the S4 can kind of hide but I'll be damned if people in S8's, A4's and VW's don't perk up when I go by or give me 'the nod'. New M3 owners seem to look at me warily. When I'm not driving it I find myself staring at the grills of other Audi's to see if it's the S model. It's just a little badge how the hell these people spot me so damn quick.

When I compared the M's hp/torque numbers with the Audi's numbers I was surprised. With the chip I think it's anywhere from 375 to 384lbs. I'm not slamming the M3's though because I do think they look nice and it's not like the drive was bad. It's a race car on the street. I do wish the Audi came more ready to rock if you know what I mean. As it stands I have to tune it to my liking and as Tariq mentioned once I do that I'll still be well below the M3 prices.

K
88 S4
02 S4
so confusing

 

S4 Avant...I'm loving it. Even more stealthier than an S4.

S4 vs. M3? Victory Audi

5 Series vs. A6? Victory Beamer

New 7 vs. new A8? Victory Audi (Audi stuck to it's design and left beamer goin for the bubbly Avalon look)

The new 6-series? Nobody will be able to compete.

 

I'm not sure what to make of the new 7 series design but the interior looks like something you have to power down to turn off. It used to be that the 7 series was the sporty car vs the conservative MB S class but now the 8 series has taken up the slack in the sporty Q car class.

K

 

I agree Kaz,

Sometimes I just stop and admire the 7 then other times I miss the old 7's...low...sleek...wide. But I could definitely live in the interior. The exterior seems to be trying to do too many things at once though, almost japanesish.

 

All is not milk and honey in the land of S4's. Read Audiworld. If you want the big power you have to chip. Asta la vista warranty. S4's were eating turbos like popcorn. How many thousands $ to replace them on your own dime? The brakes need upgrading, etc.

 

pib4Bill, I respectfully have to disagree. Stock S4's are pretty darn quick, and while a chip and exhaust gives you some REALLY big HP, they are also relatively cheap. The percentage of turbo failures is really quite low -- it may seem high because people who have failures post about it, but people who DON'T have failures aren't posting every day about their reliability. The failures that have occurred are primarily on early model 00's, and those were infant mortalities due to manufacturing problems, not turbo's.

The brakes are more than adequate for normal street use. They have terrific stopping power, the weakness is for track use. And while there are some really nice upgrade kits for about $2K, just adding some track pads is enough for most people. They ain't Porsche quality brakes, but they are not as bad as some people make them out to be.

My S4 is my daily driver and I absolutely love the car. I've tracked it at Summit Point, VIR, Road America and Watkins Glen and it has performed superbly. Since I got my 951 last Fall I intend to make the Porsche my track car and occasional weekend plaything, but the Audi S4 is an incredible car for the money. I feel very blessed to own these two fine automobiles.