Porsche 944 Turbo, Weight, Power?
05-05-2003, 12:31 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Mustang Cobras....here's what to watch for, at least on the mid-90s ones. I haven't kept up since I sold my last 5.0 GT.
Up until they changed over to the vertical taillights, those cars have a 302 with different heads and intake from the regular GTs of the same period, with about 245HP. With the vertical rear tail lights, you are looking at the new 4.6 liter DOHC engine and it produces 305HP. The regular GTs had only a SOHC engine with the 4.6 and made much less.
I have ridden in a couple of the 4.6 liter Cobras and I have to say that in many ways they are kinda similar to a turbo car. They make their power well up on the RPM scale and you almost get a "boost" in the pants when it really comes on the cam as it accelerates.
Cheers!
Up until they changed over to the vertical taillights, those cars have a 302 with different heads and intake from the regular GTs of the same period, with about 245HP. With the vertical rear tail lights, you are looking at the new 4.6 liter DOHC engine and it produces 305HP. The regular GTs had only a SOHC engine with the 4.6 and made much less.
I have ridden in a couple of the 4.6 liter Cobras and I have to say that in many ways they are kinda similar to a turbo car. They make their power well up on the RPM scale and you almost get a "boost" in the pants when it really comes on the cam as it accelerates.
Cheers!
05-05-2003, 02:31 PM
#18
Race Director
I think that Mustang was the year that got crippled by a revised intake-manifold (for the worse) and an extra crimp in the exhaust for packaging reasons. The production models ended up with 20-30hp less than the official Ford specifications. When these changes came to light, Ford had to spend a lot of money retrofitting those cars and doing dyno-testing to prove to the owners they were getting the advertized power.
I think the biggest factor in those drag-race results is the difference in weight between these two cars. Add a passenger and two kids in the back seat of the Porsche and you'll have a more even match. The power output should be pretty close with a low-end torque advantage going to the Mustang.
I think the biggest factor in those drag-race results is the difference in weight between these two cars. Add a passenger and two kids in the back seat of the Porsche and you'll have a more even match. The power output should be pretty close with a low-end torque advantage going to the Mustang.
05-05-2003, 02:35 PM
#19
Drive-by provocation guy
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My first impressions of the 4.6 SVT Cobras was they were really bad ***. Then I heard they only made about 300hp. I was under the impression they made a lot more. I raced one with a free flow exhaust when I had my 86 928S and left him off the line and he never caught up. In my 951, I have to play catch up off the line, but then leave them by about 3 car lengths. I have seen a few of the SC and most have old guys that just drive them to shows. Have only seen one with someone actually getting on it. He went around a corner and then got on it at about 25-30 mph and broke the tires till about 4th gear!!!!
05-05-2003, 04:17 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Danno,
The first race we did the camera man was in my car (weighs around 200lbs) with me during the race while the Cobra guy was by him self in his car. As you can see from the videos I seemed to pull about the same in both videos. Obviously in the second video the camera man was in Mike's Mustang while I was alone in my car for that race. I was in Mike's Cobra and it sure doesn't feel sluggish so we were both shocked to see how it ran against my car.
The first race we did the camera man was in my car (weighs around 200lbs) with me during the race while the Cobra guy was by him self in his car. As you can see from the videos I seemed to pull about the same in both videos. Obviously in the second video the camera man was in Mike's Mustang while I was alone in my car for that race. I was in Mike's Cobra and it sure doesn't feel sluggish so we were both shocked to see how it ran against my car.
05-05-2003, 08:14 PM
#22
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....a stock 951 should be on par with a 1996SVT
taking the weight of the vehicles in to consideration
....a stock 951S should be on par with a 2001SVT
again taking the weight of the vehicles in to consideration
....a stock 2003 SVT ...forget it this car will eat many vehicles. 390/390 .... and a LIGHTLY modified SVT with chip and exhaust puts up over 460/460!!!!! with a quarter mile in the elevens!
SO beware.
taking the weight of the vehicles in to consideration
....a stock 951S should be on par with a 2001SVT
again taking the weight of the vehicles in to consideration
....a stock 2003 SVT ...forget it this car will eat many vehicles. 390/390 .... and a LIGHTLY modified SVT with chip and exhaust puts up over 460/460!!!!! with a quarter mile in the elevens!
SO beware.
05-06-2003, 12:28 AM
#25
Race Director
"how much hp is in your 951, that is in the video?"
At 16psi or so on his car, this will be the maximum for the stock injectors and stock turbo. Should be around 250-260rwhp, but more importantly, about 300lb-ft TQ at the wheels. It's really TQ across a wide powerband that rules a drag-race like this. Accounting for the differences in weight, the Mustang would need about 350lb-ft TQ at the wheels to be comparable (about 390lb-ft at the crank).
At 16psi or so on his car, this will be the maximum for the stock injectors and stock turbo. Should be around 250-260rwhp, but more importantly, about 300lb-ft TQ at the wheels. It's really TQ across a wide powerband that rules a drag-race like this. Accounting for the differences in weight, the Mustang would need about 350lb-ft TQ at the wheels to be comparable (about 390lb-ft at the crank).
05-06-2003, 10:10 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>"how much hp is in your 951, that is in the video?"
At 16psi or so on his car, this will be the maximum for the stock injectors and stock turbo. Should be around 250-260rwhp, but more importantly, about 300lb-ft TQ at the wheels. It's really TQ across a wide powerband that rules a drag-race like this. Accounting for the differences in weight, the Mustang would need about 350lb-ft TQ at the wheels to be comparable (about 390lb-ft at the crank).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
BTW, Danno, I sent you some @ about my dyno today..
<strong>"how much hp is in your 951, that is in the video?"
At 16psi or so on his car, this will be the maximum for the stock injectors and stock turbo. Should be around 250-260rwhp, but more importantly, about 300lb-ft TQ at the wheels. It's really TQ across a wide powerband that rules a drag-race like this. Accounting for the differences in weight, the Mustang would need about 350lb-ft TQ at the wheels to be comparable (about 390lb-ft at the crank).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
BTW, Danno, I sent you some @ about my dyno today..
05-06-2003, 11:25 AM
#28
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by AlexE:
[QB....a stock 2003 SVT ...forget it this car will eat many vehicles. 390/390 .... and a LIGHTLY modified SVT with chip and exhaust puts up over 460/460!!!!! with a quarter mile in the elevens![/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">From what I've read the 2003 SVT weights about 4000lbs "wet" with just one person riding. For a modern "sports" that's really heavy. Then there's the overall handling factor which still does not match the 951 superior handling and stopping. Last but not least the cost factor, for that much money into a 951 will get the SVT's door blown off all the way. Not to mention we are comparing a 4 cyl with half the cu/in over ten years old to current state of art. Current Mustangs, since 1974, are ugly. IMHO: There are very few sports car(Ferrari, Lamborghini, ect) which can match the 951 in appearance and sex appeal
Makes me feel 20 years younger everytime I get behind the wheels.
[QB....a stock 2003 SVT ...forget it this car will eat many vehicles. 390/390 .... and a LIGHTLY modified SVT with chip and exhaust puts up over 460/460!!!!! with a quarter mile in the elevens![/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">From what I've read the 2003 SVT weights about 4000lbs "wet" with just one person riding. For a modern "sports" that's really heavy. Then there's the overall handling factor which still does not match the 951 superior handling and stopping. Last but not least the cost factor, for that much money into a 951 will get the SVT's door blown off all the way. Not to mention we are comparing a 4 cyl with half the cu/in over ten years old to current state of art. Current Mustangs, since 1974, are ugly. IMHO: There are very few sports car(Ferrari, Lamborghini, ect) which can match the 951 in appearance and sex appeal
Makes me feel 20 years younger everytime I get behind the wheels.
05-06-2003, 02:45 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
My Mustang friend informed me that TongG is on svtperformance saying some things about my car. I'm not going to let it bother me but here are just a few quotes. "The thing is... that 944 turbo wasn't all that fast for a 944 turbo."
"Also, he had severe wheel hop, and I don't think he even had a LSD differential. "
"Yes a fast car. But not that fast by 944 turbo standards." huh??
My car does have LSD by the way. Also what's the deal with this guy by always making a point that his stuff is better than everyone eles?!?
S
Sorry guys that my car is not fast by 944 Turbo standards.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
"Also, he had severe wheel hop, and I don't think he even had a LSD differential. "
"Yes a fast car. But not that fast by 944 turbo standards." huh??
My car does have LSD by the way. Also what's the deal with this guy by always making a point that his stuff is better than everyone eles?!?
S
Sorry guys that my car is not fast by 944 Turbo standards.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-06-2003, 02:51 PM
#30
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Dan, I wouldn't take offense...typing on boards always allows certain level of miscommunication and interpretation. He probably means that there are plenty of additional mods that can be made to your car or other 951s to make them even faster than your car captured in the video...countless numbers of turbo variations, injectors.....blah blah blah....
peace
peace