Airbag Car Owners Beware - Someone is watching you!
06-16-2003, 05:43 PM
#1
Rennlist Junkie Forever
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Airbag Car Owners Beware - Someone is watching you!
Cars' `Black Boxes' Hold Crash Data, New Privacy Issues
This information can be used against you in a court of law.
<a href="http://www.newhouse.com/archive/jensen061203.html" target="_blank">Click here to read the article</a>
This information can be used against you in a court of law.
<a href="http://www.newhouse.com/archive/jensen061203.html" target="_blank">Click here to read the article</a>
06-16-2003, 06:24 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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I found the most amazing part of the story
to be the part where some idiot in a fire chicken goes 98 to 114 mph in a residential zone.
Also note, that its illegal in some states to remove safety equipment, and since the blackbox is considered such...
btw.. i removed my airbag controller <snicker snicker>, but I doubt our cars have this anyway.
to be the part where some idiot in a fire chicken goes 98 to 114 mph in a residential zone.
Also note, that its illegal in some states to remove safety equipment, and since the blackbox is considered such...
btw.. i removed my airbag controller <snicker snicker>, but I doubt our cars have this anyway.
06-16-2003, 08:14 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
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I have customers approach me about removing these in the new camaro-birds and vette's. I've never offered to remove them although my scan tool will erase any stored info on them in case of the need to. I don't think the insurance co's are smart enough around here anyways!
06-16-2003, 08:18 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by badcoupe:
<strong>I don't think the insurance co's are smart enough around here anyways!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Depends how much money is involved and whether innocent bystanders are injured or killed. If they need to they'll send in the consultants. Like Mr. Wolf in Pulp Fiction.
In those cases, I wish them well.
<strong>I don't think the insurance co's are smart enough around here anyways!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Depends how much money is involved and whether innocent bystanders are injured or killed. If they need to they'll send in the consultants. Like Mr. Wolf in Pulp Fiction.
In those cases, I wish them well.
06-16-2003, 08:36 PM
#6
Rennlist Junkie Forever
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The issue is not that this guy was an idiot. That's obvious, and he got what he had coming to him.
The issue is that your driving habits can be used against you in a court of law. That bothers me!
The issue is that your driving habits can be used against you in a court of law. That bothers me!
06-16-2003, 08:37 PM
#7
Rennlist Junkie Forever
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badcoupe
You would have to be able to erase the scan codes after you've had an accident as the car is only recording something like the last 5 seconds of operation before a crash.
You would have to be able to erase the scan codes after you've had an accident as the car is only recording something like the last 5 seconds of operation before a crash.
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06-16-2003, 09:28 PM
#8
Rennlist Junkie Forever
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I've removed my air bags since:
a) it's unsafe to drive with my child in the front seat with them (11 years old).
b) the explosive charges, their respective connnections and sensors are at least 15 years old. Too old.
c) they are heavy
d) I do not want them exploding in my face when I'm on the race track and I should happen to bump someone
e) I always wear my seat belt.
f) I can imagine what would happen if I have my sunglasses on, and that air bag exploded in my face shoving broken bits of sunglass lens in my eyes.
a) it's unsafe to drive with my child in the front seat with them (11 years old).
b) the explosive charges, their respective connnections and sensors are at least 15 years old. Too old.
c) they are heavy
d) I do not want them exploding in my face when I'm on the race track and I should happen to bump someone
e) I always wear my seat belt.
f) I can imagine what would happen if I have my sunglasses on, and that air bag exploded in my face shoving broken bits of sunglass lens in my eyes.
06-17-2003, 12:03 AM
#9
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i dont personally have a problem with this. good for them if it helped convict the bastard. but to say its an invation of privacy is absurd. it would be like not allowing ballistics evidence in a shooting. besides, it only records five seconds... the last five seconds. you wouldnt need to erase any illicit behavior with a scan tool because driving ten feet would erase it for you. i dont have a problem with this device, but in the name of comprimise, im willing to say that its presence should be made general knowledge.
take care,
brian
take care,
brian
06-17-2003, 12:53 AM
#10
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bavarian banshee
The analogy is a bad one, since balistics evidence is a byproduct of the weapon firing. You're only examining something that is already there. Nobody has installed a device to record who you pointed the gun at, or how fast you pulled the trigger when confronted with an intruder, etc...
In this case, people (companies), or rather the devices they installed in your vehicle specifically to recored certain aspects of your vehicle operation, are recording your actions, to a degree, with respect to how you operate your vehicle, in order to use that information against you, and to protect them (the companies).
Big difference between the two scenarios.
That same system could easily be installed to record everytime you exceed 65mph. Imagine if the police could use that information to issue you traffic citations retroactively? Don't laugh... it could easily come true with today's technology... under the guise of making our streets, and our children, safer.
Hey... but it would make our streets safer huh? Let all those bastards that speed pay...
Unfortunately, this type of recording always where these types of things start... in the name of safety.
Typically these types of things don't stop there and usually "mission creep" to something else.. thereby slowly erroding our right to privacy. It all start somewhere... It always has.
Kind of like all the cameras slowly poping up at every intersection across America. Wonder why those are there? Think the police will pull that recording up to use against you?
Or the use of GPS transmitters in rental cars...
Or the.....
The point is, that I simply disagree with devices that record how I operate my vehicle, where I operate it, and when I operate it.
It's called privacy.
The analogy is a bad one, since balistics evidence is a byproduct of the weapon firing. You're only examining something that is already there. Nobody has installed a device to record who you pointed the gun at, or how fast you pulled the trigger when confronted with an intruder, etc...
In this case, people (companies), or rather the devices they installed in your vehicle specifically to recored certain aspects of your vehicle operation, are recording your actions, to a degree, with respect to how you operate your vehicle, in order to use that information against you, and to protect them (the companies).
Big difference between the two scenarios.
That same system could easily be installed to record everytime you exceed 65mph. Imagine if the police could use that information to issue you traffic citations retroactively? Don't laugh... it could easily come true with today's technology... under the guise of making our streets, and our children, safer.
Hey... but it would make our streets safer huh? Let all those bastards that speed pay...
Unfortunately, this type of recording always where these types of things start... in the name of safety.
Typically these types of things don't stop there and usually "mission creep" to something else.. thereby slowly erroding our right to privacy. It all start somewhere... It always has.
Kind of like all the cameras slowly poping up at every intersection across America. Wonder why those are there? Think the police will pull that recording up to use against you?
Or the use of GPS transmitters in rental cars...
Or the.....
The point is, that I simply disagree with devices that record how I operate my vehicle, where I operate it, and when I operate it.
It's called privacy.
06-17-2003, 01:30 AM
#11
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It don't matter anyway, if they really really wanted to, they probably have a satellite image of you that could count hairs on you head for the last 10 years. Yeah, technology IS getting quite absurd.
06-17-2003, 02:00 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
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If the ecm will still run then all of the history and current info can be done away with. Just disconnecting the battery alone won't do it on the ob2 stuff. the fact that they do this bothewrs me as well. Some late model GM's have what is called abuse management and when this activates (you can see it commanded on the scan tool) it changes several of the engine's parameters as well as starts logging info. I've seen it on newer vettes f-bodies and grand ams (not sure why) I also don't always care for airbags and have disconnected them for several customers, mostly elderly and short people. they don't mind the light on the dash so it suits me. I only do this after having them sign a waiver. anytime a trouble code is set the computer also logs a failure record so if the abs is activated harshly it will create a log on everything on the car for a few seconds before and after the instance the code is set to help us techs see what was goin on when the code was set. Kinda nice but definately has it's drawbacks!
06-17-2003, 02:20 AM
#14
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Care to have OnStar activate your doorlocks by saltellite? This stuff is in all the new cars, only lacks a transponder antenna on the really new models.
