333pg333

I reckon their laptimes would still be very competitive on that track today...if it was in the same condition and formation. Those softer springs and narrow tyres allowed a lot of hand action and driver input. I'm betting a stiffly sprung current day Cup Car would struggle on such a narrow bumpy track.

Re the springs, I found that shifting up to 800/900lb springs was fine on R specs but when I used the slicks recently I all of a sudden had much more body roll. Of course this is obvious but it was a bit startling all the same.

jerome951

Quoting you... I beg to differ. ;-)

For sprint races, those cars had 300+ hp just through DME changes (I heard 3 options were available; sprint, race, and enduro).
A friend managed to buy a DME from 'a little old lady' that had been unopened. Noticed his car felt noticably quicker. Turns out it was likely a Turbo Cup box w/ one of the sprint chips. I think he dyno'd >270 at the rear wheels, all the while claiming he was able to pull me on the straights due to higher exit speeds.

Thom

May be worth mentioning Cup cars were also significantly lighter than the average road 951.

Duke

Where they really significantly lighter?
The only plastic they had was the hood.

jerome951

According to the article posted, ~300# lighter. That's certainly worth a second or 2 per lap over a stock-weight car.

Chris White

Lots of little things add up – magnesium wheels and intakes manifolds….if the factory went to the bother of casting magnesium intake manifolds you could bet that they found other ways to save as well!

I did get a chuckle out of Scott bumping the wipers several times – very common for newbee 944 track drivers!

Duke

It would make sense, but that's not the case from the Cup cars I've seen. IMHO very little work done to the Cup cars that makes any big difference.
Why they did the sump and intake manifold in magnesium is a mystery given all the parts they left stock.

I don't disagree they were lighter, but often the Cup cars are given more credit than they deserve (except for the historical value which is great, but another thing)

TX951

Fun video.

+1

No problem getting off line, and making the pass much past the apex. Walked a few down the straight too.

Scott H

The .pdf posted earlier in this thread said they even cast the transaxle case in Magnesium.

TonyG

.... and then they went back to aluminum after they had problems.


TonyG

Oddjob

The US Escort Cup cars were the only Turbo Cups that came with the 3 chip sets, for enduros, sprints and qualifying, approx 250, 275, 300 bhp. The 250 enduro/eco chips were basically equivalent to the stock Turbo S chip set. The 300 bhp chips used a 3.0 bar FPR and factory modifications to the WG (shims), and have “104 okt” (104+ octane) hand written on the labels.

The Canadian cars came with a single chip set installed in the DME/KLR with tamper proof seals. These chips were equivalent to the Escort sprint (275) chips. But - the rumor is that many of the Canadian Cups were found with drilled cycling valves, jetted banjo bolts, tampered WGs, etc...

Easy to tell the Cup DME/KLRs – they have a black label on them and the seal on the edge which says Type CUP CAR. The part numbers also end in – 05 for both units.

Oddjob

If you didn’t catch these videos posted on the other thread or on the youtube autosearch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y487sBUILTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDM-BwwZB8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCsGKc6NBdI


Here is Scott Goodyear's car from the outside:

Oddjob

Around 2750-2800 lbs as delivered. All the delete options, no AC, single cooling fan, manual windows, manual steering, no sunroof, no power seats, no radio, speakers, wiring, no undercoating, no sound deadening, etc – it does add up. Not a big weight difference, but 250-300 lbs vs a stock/street US Spec Turbo S, plus more power and significantly stiffer suspension made for a very big difference between the factory Cup car and a production Turbo S on the track back in 1988.

Much of what little myth and mystique there is surrounding the “Turbo Cup” cars comes from those early days, when no significant aftermarket upgrades were available for 951s. These days, performance-wise, there are no original Cup parts that cannot be equaled or improved on with aftermarket suspension pieces and basic weight reduction. Any additional value of a Cup versus an equal prepared production car, is controlled only by the rarity of the VIN and unique racing history – which is similar (although not anywhere near the same scale) to many of the rare 911 S, RS, & Cup versions. The performance can be replicated and exceeded for less money than an original.

Dea_944t

This is supposed to be a cup rear muffler (which I didn't know when I bought it), it's made by Fuchs in Germany.
The part from the muffler to the front section looks to be same as all other Turbos so I'm not sure if this is what was on the cup cars.

/Dea

Black51

Sadly, it is likely that all of those cars have been larted by now.