docwyte

Yeah, in retrospect perhaps I should've gone with a 2 piece bell housing. However with my setup now I have a scatter shield (for Bonneville!) and no need for an adapter plate.

I've had good dealings with Renegade. Since TPC basically built my car I ended up with most of their stuff, just the way that works.

Rene

I have to second Tony G's comments. I did a swap last year with RH & I have been pleased with my conversion. Nothing against the other vendors they may do quality work. When i needed my parts from RH they arrived on time & the swap was seamless & the phone support has always been top notch.

I had a clutch failure at the NASA nationals event at Miller Motor-sports park in September & the RH guys got a replacement out to me on the bus that afternoon & i was back on the track the following day.

LS1Porch

Of course there's no failures on the RH stuff. There is nothing TO fail. These are simple conversions.

RH didn't "design and engineer" these parts. They made standard swap parts, threw in a bunch of off-the-shelf parts, made a kit, and sold it for literally 2-3x what it actually cost them to assemble. If that makes you feel like giving them a reach-around, then go for it!

TonyG--you make it sound like they reinvented the wheel. Gimme a break! It's a clutchmasters clutch and a GM flywheel, actuated by an off-the-shelf slave cylinder. Did RH have it blessed by the Pope?


I have nothing against RH's parts, their stuff has worked fine for me. What i dislike is their pricing and their attitude. One or the other would be fine, but the combination makes me wish i hadn't purchased from them. I have personally seen them bully people and steal their designs, then badmouth the very design that they copied (pilot bearing). If those are the kinds of people you want to do business with, fine.

TonyG

The deal is that I really don't care if they invented the wheel, reinvented the wheel, copied the wheel, stole the wheel, etc...

It just makes no difference to me.

My concern is a kit that is functional, reliable, and one that simply works.

My background is in engineering. Yes I could get knee-deep in making a kit. But why? And who really cares?

My time is worth money. To that end... It's just not worth it to reengineer a pair of engine motor mounts or oil pan. Or to make my own bell housing. Who cares?

The fact that RH has a OEM quality 2 piece bell housing is a big deal. The fact that it's a cast aluminum piece is even better. That 2 piece design makes HUGE difference when you service the clutch/flywheel/slave cylinder assembly.

The point is that what they offer is, in my book, close to top notch. What I see offered by others, even though they may have engineered it in-house, is simply not as good. It may work. It may work fine. But it's just not as good.

I'm not a RH boy. I just go (and to some degree... promote where deserved..) with products that work well and stand out above the crowd.


TonyG

LS1Porch

Then you must not be aware what others are using. Nobody is making bellhousings out of duct-tape and super glue.

There are several choices for the bellhousing:
*The GM #12551118 (1-piece C5 BH) will work with up to a 12.0" clutch setup and has a HUGE inspection hole on the bottom
*The GM #12554980 (2-piece C5 BH)
*Scattershield (required for a number of motorsports, and may even save your legs from getting cut off!)

The funny thing is, these actually are OEM parts, and they cost 1/4 of RH's "almost as good as OEM" bellhousing.

That's your opinion, but i don't think you actually *know* what other people are doing.


Oil pans: There are a dozen pans on the market for road-racing an LS engine, and they all fit thanks to TPC's crossmember.
Check out these for $300 (hell, that first LS pan actually looks like what RH sold me, might even fit with the stock crossmember!):
http://www.kevkoracing.com/wetsump_chevy.htm

I don't know what people can do to get the conversion manual these days...

PorscheDoc

What does TPC's crossmember run? Also, what is the difference between the 1 and 2 piece bellhousings? Do they both need the adapter plate that I see on TPC's website?

KSira

Second that, what is the benefit of the TPC crossmember, and a two piece bell housing?

m73m95

AFIK the TPC crossmember is made lower, allowing you to use a "stock" GM LSx oil pan. With the renegade kit, you have to either buy their oil pan, lower the stock crossmember, or buy their custom pan.

TonyG

If you track the car, you won't use the stock LSx oil pan anyway.

And I use a stock cross member, the RH race oil pan, and my cross member isn't lowered.

TonyG

TonyG

One is a heavy steel 1 piece. The other is a light weight 2 piece aluminum bell housing.


The advantages are weight and the ability to pull the clutch/flywheel without pulling the transmission. That's a big difference in terms of time.

As far as safety goes.... I've been racing for over 20 years competitively as well as being a licensed driving instructor. And there is no requirement for a scatter shield in any road race class, professional or amateur no matter the flywheel material.


TonyG

TonyG

I do know what's being run. I've seen the pictures and followed a lot of threads.

Not that what TPC builds is bad, I just don't think what I see is better than what I have. And personally, a 2- piece bell housing is a must.

The other thing is the materials used. Going with steel is a step backwards for me.

And I looked at the oil pans in those links. None of them have windage trays.

TonyG

m73m95

Which is one of the options I listed... You have to use their pan.

You can get an extra capacity LS pan for next to nothing, from a vast number of suppliers. Just have to either lower the stock crossmember, or buy the TPC one.


I don't want in on the "fight". I just stated what I found out about Renegade. There are WAY to many customer complaints. If Paragon, Lindsey, or Pelican had that many complaints, I'm sure they wouldn't be the companies they are today. All 3 of them are great companies that have great customer service, fast shipping and reasonable prices. That's why every one of us on this forum use them. Renegade hasn't shown that they are in the same league as the "normal" 944 parts suppliers (in my opinion).

TonyG

With respect to LSx RH kits:

Pricing aside... I just don't see what there could be to complain about in terms of the RH kits. I've installed the LS1, raced it for 5 years. Blew up the engine. Bought a new LS6 and just finished installing it... which gave me a good chance to inspect everything. The only thing I replaced is the custom pilot bearing because I didn't think I could get it out of the LS1 engine without destroying it..

Oh... and I did replace the oil pan. Not because there was a problem with the design... because some idiot at the shop lowered the car down from the lift and didn't check to see if there was anything under the car. The result was a slightly dented oil pan sump. I didn't have time to replace it so I just ordered a new one. I plan on fixing the old one and selling it or just keeping it for a future conversion car.

TonyG

PorscheDoc

Does anyone have a picture of the 2 piece installed on the motor? I am having trouble understanding how you can change the clutch without pulling the torque tube back, thus pulling the splines out disc. The 968 makes this possible due to the 2 piece drive shaft, but I'm not seeing how this benefits the 1 piece 944 torque tube. What am I missing?

968ls1

You can't change the clutch without moving the TT back. It does allow you to remove the slave cylinder/adapter plate without removing the whole bell housing and you can verify the amount of clutch release before you put it all together. Just had a friend with a 1 piece that had a leaking slave and it required a lot more work to gain access than a two piece would have .