The LS1 swap has begun
09-30-2010, 11:43 PM
#286
Rennlist Junkie Forever
First off, I won't debate the wheel widening thing, except to say that you'd be very surprised at the major name 911 race shops that have wheels fabricated for extremely fast 911 race cars (many of which are driven by professional drivers that you'd see racing Rolex and AMLS, etc...). These have never had a failure. And like I said... I put my life on them... literally. They are always perfectly true at each tire change, never lose air, and have never developed any cracks. (where do you think everybody gets the 11x15 911 RSR wheels from?) The machine that that does the job, does it to exacting measurements. And it's a machine that costs in excess of $500k.
And BTW... it's the same shop that does most of the concept car wheels for the major OEM's (including Porsche).
As far as the spacers go.... The rear spacers are factory Porsche 930 spacers. This is what came on 930's from the factory. Not only did Porsche use spacers there, but they have used them on a TON of factory Porsches.
The fronts are custom made which are hub centric and wheel centric, machined out of a piece of billet aluminum. In fact you can see the billet on my web page that the spacers were cut & machined out of. These were made specifically to fit my Racers Edge billet hubs to the factory 9x17 Cup 2 rim and were machined to exacting specifications.
So please don't equate the spacers I use with some generic junk on the market. Big difference.
So you can spend 12K on two sets of Forged wheels to race on. Or you can widen some forged factory Porsche wheels for <$1k per set and spend the money you saved on 4 sets of Hoosier Slicks.
TonyG
And BTW... it's the same shop that does most of the concept car wheels for the major OEM's (including Porsche).
As far as the spacers go.... The rear spacers are factory Porsche 930 spacers. This is what came on 930's from the factory. Not only did Porsche use spacers there, but they have used them on a TON of factory Porsches.
The fronts are custom made which are hub centric and wheel centric, machined out of a piece of billet aluminum. In fact you can see the billet on my web page that the spacers were cut & machined out of. These were made specifically to fit my Racers Edge billet hubs to the factory 9x17 Cup 2 rim and were machined to exacting specifications.
So please don't equate the spacers I use with some generic junk on the market. Big difference.
So you can spend 12K on two sets of Forged wheels to race on. Or you can widen some forged factory Porsche wheels for <$1k per set and spend the money you saved on 4 sets of Hoosier Slicks.
TonyG
Not looking to debate in Docs thread so I will give this one single response - the simple fact is a proper sized originally manufactured wheel will be lighter, and potentially safer and stronger. NO QUESTION!
The fact that you are welding 2 different alloy compositions together makes it less than ideal. The result will vary with each and every "core" wheels alloy composition (forged wheel vs cast wheel, semi-solid forged, etc,etc) will have a different result. Different alloy compositions react differently to heat and welding, some alloys get brittle(similar to a work hardening effect), some weaken at welding sight, some won't weld at all.
I won't even get started on spacers. You think the aftermarket/generic spacers on your car are to the same spec/tolerance/quality as that of a factory Porsche race car? No doubt they too buy used unknown manufacturer spacers for their top dollar efforts as so many do on this forum - get real man - the spacer mentality in much of the Porsche community is downright scary.
MY race cars will never have widened wheels in this manner, repaired wheels, plugged tires, or wheel spacers just to name a few. There is the "right way" to do things and "other ways"..... I do **** the "right way" albeit more expensive in most cases.
Now let's agree to disagree on the matter and give Doc his thread back
The fact that you are welding 2 different alloy compositions together makes it less than ideal. The result will vary with each and every "core" wheels alloy composition (forged wheel vs cast wheel, semi-solid forged, etc,etc) will have a different result. Different alloy compositions react differently to heat and welding, some alloys get brittle(similar to a work hardening effect), some weaken at welding sight, some won't weld at all.
I won't even get started on spacers. You think the aftermarket/generic spacers on your car are to the same spec/tolerance/quality as that of a factory Porsche race car? No doubt they too buy used unknown manufacturer spacers for their top dollar efforts as so many do on this forum - get real man - the spacer mentality in much of the Porsche community is downright scary.
MY race cars will never have widened wheels in this manner, repaired wheels, plugged tires, or wheel spacers just to name a few. There is the "right way" to do things and "other ways"..... I do **** the "right way" albeit more expensive in most cases.
Now let's agree to disagree on the matter and give Doc his thread back
09-30-2010, 11:46 PM
#287
Rennlist Junkie Forever
09-30-2010, 11:48 PM
#288
Rennlist Junkie Forever
09-30-2010, 11:52 PM
#289
Rennlist Junkie Forever
If it wasn't mostly a track car I'd consider it, but I think the gearing of the S2 trans is still beneficial on the track.
I just don't see where having the longer gearing of the 951 trans is an advantage for me, I won't be able to hit more than the 158mph that I'm limited to with the S2 trans on the track...
I just don't see where having the longer gearing of the 951 trans is an advantage for me, I won't be able to hit more than the 158mph that I'm limited to with the S2 trans on the track...
That would depend on the track.
I have tracks that I race on where I am well over 160mph.
Plus the car will be faster if you keep it in its TQ peak the longest. That's why the 951 has the gear ratios it has.
Your LS2 is not a peaky high reving engine. It's a engine with a wide fat TQ curve which is by far better suited to the wide ratios of the 951 box.
Sometimes reving out quickly and shifting a lot is not the fastest way around the track....
TonyG
10-01-2010, 01:20 AM
#290
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So what's the name of the shop that widens the wheels? Is it a secret or are you going to tell us? 
Local tracks I doubt I'll get over 150mph on. At Miller I probably can.
If I find someone with an AOR in good shape that wants to trade I'd probably do it. However, I'm not in a rush to get rid of my perfect S2 LSD box for a "regular" 951 box of unknown provenance.
Local tracks I doubt I'll get over 150mph on. At Miller I probably can.
If I find someone with an AOR in good shape that wants to trade I'd probably do it. However, I'm not in a rush to get rid of my perfect S2 LSD box for a "regular" 951 box of unknown provenance.
10-01-2010, 01:34 AM
#291
Rennlist Junkie Forever
So what's the name of the shop that widens the wheels? Is it a secret or are you going to tell us?
Local tracks I doubt I'll get over 150mph on. At Miller I probably can.
If I find someone with an AOR in good shape that wants to trade I'd probably do it. However, I'm not in a rush to get rid of my perfect S2 LSD box for a "regular" 951 box of unknown provenance.
Local tracks I doubt I'll get over 150mph on. At Miller I probably can.
If I find someone with an AOR in good shape that wants to trade I'd probably do it. However, I'm not in a rush to get rid of my perfect S2 LSD box for a "regular" 951 box of unknown provenance.
Call:
Eric at 626.358.6413 begin_of_the_skype_highlightingStrekStrekStrekStrekStrekStrekStrekStrekS trekStrekStrekStrekStrekStrek626.358.6413StrekStrekStrekStrekStrekStreke nd_of_the_skype_highlighting
Address:
111 North Mertle Ave
Monrovia, CA
And I don't know about your local tracks... but at all of mine, I can easily get past 150mph on all of them.
TonyG
10-01-2010, 04:08 PM
#292
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Straights at my local tracks aren't that long. I'll run the S2 tranny first and see what I think. If I run out of gearing or it's obvious I need taller gearing than I'll see if I can find someone with an AOR box in good shape who wants to trade for my S2 box.
Thanks for the phone #, I'll give them a call...
Thanks for the phone #, I'll give them a call...
10-02-2010, 06:36 PM
#293
Burning Brakes
Here's his contact info (I can't remember the exact name of the company because I didn't store it in my phone, but I'll give you his name and his number).
Call:
Eric at 626.358.6413
Address:
111 North Mertle Ave
Monrovia, CA
And I don't know about your local tracks... but at all of mine, I can easily get past 150mph on all of them.
TonyG
Call:
Eric at 626.358.6413
Address:
111 North Mertle Ave
Monrovia, CA
And I don't know about your local tracks... but at all of mine, I can easily get past 150mph on all of them.
TonyG
Link to his site, Eric Vaughn Machine.
10-02-2010, 10:53 PM
#296
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yep works for me on the desktop, wouldn't on my phone for some reason.
Looks like hanging on to that extra set of front Cup 2's was a good idea. Now I can send them out to get widened and not screw with the 4 17x9's I currently have.
Tony, what do you think about running a 17x10? I know I can fit that without spacers with the stock ET55 offset. I can run a 295 on that wheel easily. Think I could fit a 17x11 without spacers?
What offset and width spacer did you end up on your 17x11's? I assume you also replaced the rear wheel studs with longer ones...
Looks like hanging on to that extra set of front Cup 2's was a good idea. Now I can send them out to get widened and not screw with the 4 17x9's I currently have.
Tony, what do you think about running a 17x10? I know I can fit that without spacers with the stock ET55 offset. I can run a 295 on that wheel easily. Think I could fit a 17x11 without spacers?
What offset and width spacer did you end up on your 17x11's? I assume you also replaced the rear wheel studs with longer ones...
10-02-2010, 11:16 PM
#297
Rennlist Member
I'm a bit confused here. For each wheel widened do they need another wheel to get the donor amount of rim to add?
Do we think that they could do Enkei type 1 piece spun cast wheels?
http://www.enkei.com/nt03m.html#
Do we think that they could do Enkei type 1 piece spun cast wheels?
http://www.enkei.com/nt03m.html#
10-02-2010, 11:29 PM
#298
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
In reading their site it sound like they slice up the wheels you send them, then weld in barrel material meant for a multi piece wheel.
So no, they're not taking 4 wheels to make 2...
So no, they're not taking 4 wheels to make 2...
10-03-2010, 01:43 AM
#299
Rennlist Junkie Forever
They cut off part of the original wheel and discard it. They then machine down the original wheel so that a "donor" barrel can be fit over the original wheel forming an "over lap".
Its then trued and welded together on the inside and outside of the wheel.
Your "Front Cup 2" 17x7 wheels are not the same offset as the factory 17x9 wheels. Given this , I'm not sure you can actually have enough "meat" on them to cut them up, and have enough to weld a barrel onto.
In the case of a 17x7 wheel, you're talking about cutting it down 2" before welding on a 6+ " barrel in order to net 11" wheel. Seems excessive.
Eric probably won't do that.
The right way is to use a 17x9 wheel to widen. But you'd have to ask him. He's the expert, not me.
TonyG
Its then trued and welded together on the inside and outside of the wheel.
Your "Front Cup 2" 17x7 wheels are not the same offset as the factory 17x9 wheels. Given this , I'm not sure you can actually have enough "meat" on them to cut them up, and have enough to weld a barrel onto.
In the case of a 17x7 wheel, you're talking about cutting it down 2" before welding on a 6+ " barrel in order to net 11" wheel. Seems excessive.
Eric probably won't do that.
The right way is to use a 17x9 wheel to widen. But you'd have to ask him. He's the expert, not me.
TonyG