ls1 swap vs fixing/maintaining the 2.5l, was: pondering swapping an engine harn
08-09-2010, 07:37 PM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
All of the issues you list are not really the engine's fault. The core engine is fine; it is the vacuum hoses and worn out wiring that seems to be giving you fits. Maybe try a new harness and running all new vacuum lines. I guess, I am at a loss since these are the type of items you generally expect to happen to a 20+ year old car.
It sounds like you purchased a bad car and have gotten well over your head. Do you do your own work or are you taking this mess to a shop? If you are taking the car to a shop, stop now and invest in a new/different car.
Things like alignment and tires have nothing to do with the car running and you will still have to do that type of repair work with a swapped engine.
It sounds like you purchased a bad car and have gotten well over your head. Do you do your own work or are you taking this mess to a shop? If you are taking the car to a shop, stop now and invest in a new/different car.
Things like alignment and tires have nothing to do with the car running and you will still have to do that type of repair work with a swapped engine.
the series problem(s) i ran in to when buying the car, plus the additional complexity of my first high performance engine, were what got me. i didn't do enough homework before starting my first repairs and that definitely bit me hard. particularly with the state of the vehicle being much different than expected.
as for the alignment and tires, yes: i am well aware that that has nothing to do w/the running of the car -- they're just two items that i need to have happen before i start really driving the car. in retrospect, i should have just put the engine stuff down.
after reading this topic, and everyone's responses, i think i will be more than able to get things going. i have a few items on my build plan that i don't have the desire to really do (nor tools, nor potential skill), and i'll be taking the car to a new shop when the time comes. right now, i think that within a week or two of my last shipment arriving (engine harness plugs/boots) the car will be ready to fire up.
if that goes well, then it's heading over to my shop for tuning. if it doesn't go well, then it's back to diagnosing and most likely the shop.
shane
08-09-2010, 09:03 PM
#17
Well the plus side is that the reference sensors are much easier with the intake manifold off (which you have already done.)
Lindsey Racing has a good diagram for vacuum hose routing.
Wiring can be cleaned up and taped/shrink-wrapped.
Oil all over the block could be a leak. It could also be the result of a previous owner spilling oil all over the place when they attempted to put oil into the oil fill. I'd clean it all out and keep an eye on it.
The crusty stuff you see lying under the manifold could also be remnants of the original hood liner. They're foam and crumble. When I bought my car, I thought the top of the block was full of dirt and crud, and wasn't until my head bumped against the opened hood (with shreds of the liner remaining) that I figured out what it was.
Lindsey Racing has a good diagram for vacuum hose routing.
Wiring can be cleaned up and taped/shrink-wrapped.
Oil all over the block could be a leak. It could also be the result of a previous owner spilling oil all over the place when they attempted to put oil into the oil fill. I'd clean it all out and keep an eye on it.
The crusty stuff you see lying under the manifold could also be remnants of the original hood liner. They're foam and crumble. When I bought my car, I thought the top of the block was full of dirt and crud, and wasn't until my head bumped against the opened hood (with shreds of the liner remaining) that I figured out what it was.
08-09-2010, 11:19 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Well the plus side is that the reference sensors are much easier with the intake manifold off (which you have already done.)
Lindsey Racing has a good diagram for vacuum hose routing.
Wiring can be cleaned up and taped/shrink-wrapped.
Oil all over the block could be a leak. It could also be the result of a previous owner spilling oil all over the place when they attempted to put oil into the oil fill. I'd clean it all out and keep an eye on it.
The crusty stuff you see lying under the manifold could also be remnants of the original hood liner. They're foam and crumble. When I bought my car, I thought the top of the block was full of dirt and crud, and wasn't until my head bumped against the opened hood (with shreds of the liner remaining) that I figured out what it was.
Lindsey Racing has a good diagram for vacuum hose routing.
Wiring can be cleaned up and taped/shrink-wrapped.
Oil all over the block could be a leak. It could also be the result of a previous owner spilling oil all over the place when they attempted to put oil into the oil fill. I'd clean it all out and keep an eye on it.
The crusty stuff you see lying under the manifold could also be remnants of the original hood liner. They're foam and crumble. When I bought my car, I thought the top of the block was full of dirt and crud, and wasn't until my head bumped against the opened hood (with shreds of the liner remaining) that I figured out what it was.
vacuum diags: yeah, i'm using a couple of different diagrams and guides as references... but the lindsey ones are my main resource. the car's on a sloped driveway, so i haven't jacked it up yet to see what wastegate i have. i know it's aftermarket, but am unsure what brand, or if it's dual/single.
wiring: the cracking is really bad on the outside sheath, and i don't feel safe with them like that, even taped and wrapped. i know it's going to be a b!tch but i want to replace the whole shebang.
oil: there were no leaks on or below the seam between the head and the block, so i think i'm ok. most of it probably came from the AOS line, which had degraded so badly that it had slid right off and was hanging off to one side. that being said, there WAS a lot of oil... gonna think on this one.
crusty stuff: yeah, it was a great mix of that foam (i bet), oil, dirt, melted corrugated sheathing and whoknowswhatelse.
shane
08-10-2010, 12:09 AM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
oil: there were no leaks on or below the seam between the head and the block, so i think i'm ok. most of it probably came from the AOS line, which had degraded so badly that it had slid right off and was hanging off to one side. that being said, there WAS a lot of oil... gonna think on this one.
i looked at the engine again and think i may actually have a blown head gasket. see attachments. (i've since cleaned the engine)
i'll dig up and post the repairs i've had done so far -- mostly cooling system, thermostats, new radiator, timing belt/tensioner/pulleys. some other stuff, too.
08-10-2010, 12:18 AM
#20
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have also decided to make the switch to an LS1. I talked to TonyG for quite awhile (great guy, fantastic resource of info) and I was sold. I have been slowly accumulating the LS1 parts for a stout build.
08-10-2010, 01:25 AM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
well, i popped off the KLR and DME covers and popped the board apart to see what chips i had... and i wasn't surprised to find no-name chips!
has anyone heard of "ProMotion Racing"? well, besides the pocketbike/go-ped racers, or the jetski racers, or even the dirtbike racers?
the car was chipped by the first owner, and i'm the third. i think. heh. maybe it's time to get new chips, or is there a way for me to find out how these guys are set?
my FPR is also made by ProMotion...
also, anyone have a clue as to what the top sticker (below) means?
has anyone heard of "ProMotion Racing"? well, besides the pocketbike/go-ped racers, or the jetski racers, or even the dirtbike racers?
the car was chipped by the first owner, and i'm the third. i think. heh. maybe it's time to get new chips, or is there a way for me to find out how these guys are set?
my FPR is also made by ProMotion...
also, anyone have a clue as to what the top sticker (below) means?
08-10-2010, 01:35 PM
#22
Quick Bing search for Promotion Racing turns up this link: http://www.rennbay.com/states/fl.html
Might want to give the number a call listed there. I'd say the chips were burned in '08 based on the date written on the sticker.
Might want to give the number a call listed there. I'd say the chips were burned in '08 based on the date written on the sticker.
08-10-2010, 03:53 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
Quick Bing search for Promotion Racing turns up this link: http://www.rennbay.com/states/fl.html
Might want to give the number a call listed there. I'd say the chips were burned in '08 based on the date written on the sticker.
Might want to give the number a call listed there. I'd say the chips were burned in '08 based on the date written on the sticker.
i went through the repair records again and that sticker was put there by the previous owner's shop when they pulled/cleaned/tested the DME and KLR boxen.
also, i just called the number and it's disconnected. local searches around miami FL didn't show anything either. however, i dug through web.archive.org and found cached copies of the website "http://www.promotion-racing.com" with some contact info! i'll give them a call and see if that returns anything. the email bounced. also, some rennlist digging through closed posts shows a rather negative opinion about that shop. heh.
http://web.archive.org/web/200312200...on-racing.com/
and i guess i'll keep an eye on eBay for deals on any LR or vitesse chips, but for now i'll leave this problem alone.
Last edited by incomplete; 08-10-2010 at 04:26 PM.
08-11-2010, 05:24 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
well, i got pretty far yesterday after work... the old harness is out, and i'm waiting on my new connectors/boots so i can refurbish my new "used" one. my shop called, and the injectors are done w/the rebuild and matching. getting the harness out definitely helped figure out the rest of the vacuum system, too.
i checked the dipstick, oil filler tube and coolant reservoirs, and there was no sign of milkshake. i also opened up one of the coolant hoses on the back of the engine by the firewall and nothing but clean coolant came out.
so now it's a matter of reassembly and tuning, i think.
as for the ls1 swap, i still want to do it, but knowing now more of the details, i have changed my tack: if the turbo motor ends up working, i will keep that for as long as i can. during the time i will be still be looking for a donor camaro, just in case.
i checked the dipstick, oil filler tube and coolant reservoirs, and there was no sign of milkshake. i also opened up one of the coolant hoses on the back of the engine by the firewall and nothing but clean coolant came out.
so now it's a matter of reassembly and tuning, i think.
as for the ls1 swap, i still want to do it, but knowing now more of the details, i have changed my tack: if the turbo motor ends up working, i will keep that for as long as i can. during the time i will be still be looking for a donor camaro, just in case.
08-11-2010, 06:41 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Feel for ya, there but for the grace of.... The first step always sets the path, and no matter how many times I've heard, read, seen and said, buy the best condition car you can afford, to which I add, know yourself, know the car, and know the seller, theres always new examples of why that is true. Fortunately, you seem to have the backbone and courage to be a true enthusiast of the first order, and when the trail by fire ends, you will be rewarded by 40 virgin mountain roads. Glad to hear your going to roll the dice on the four-banger, the Giant Killer aspect gets little press and is such a thrill when it happens, that Legends are born and songs are sung. Take heart, once your standing on top of that pile of broken parts, the view will be breath taking and the sun will shine wherever you travel.
08-11-2010, 07:27 PM
#26
You have one of davids old cars he says he built it atleast 10 years ago. Those chips are OLD but they might have been re burnt. sent you his contact info so maybe he might be able to give you some info on the car.
08-11-2010, 10:35 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I've been following this thread for the last week or so.. Anyway I was in Vegas last weekend. So I had some time Monday before my flight and decided to stop by Renegade. Totally unannounced visit. I was greeted very warmly by the owner Scott. I asked if it would be possible to look at some cars undergoing conversion. The guy couldn't have been nicer. Showed me around for more than an hour all the while explaining the process. A 951, 914s, a Targa even a 993 turbo with a V8. For those considering an 8 there is a wealth of knowledge there. He explained for those of us in Cali how the CARB is so strict that really the best and maybe only option is Chevys new E-Rod turn key crate motor. It's not CARB legal yet but hopefully will be in the next few weeks. A first class operation fully staffed and shipping parts all over the world. I got to go thru a guys order going out to the UK. Nice stuff.
08-12-2010, 12:52 PM
#28
Racer
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993 turbo with a v8? Sort of speechless with that one since the 993 turbos command such a premium. But they sound like experts at their craft. I wonder if and when they will step up to Chevy V8ing or maybe Chrysler v10s in Fcars too? 
08-12-2010, 03:15 PM
#29
Racer
Thread Starter
I've been following this thread for the last week or so.. Anyway I was in Vegas last weekend. So I had some time Monday before my flight and decided to stop by Renegade. Totally unannounced visit. I was greeted very warmly by the owner Scott. I asked if it would be possible to look at some cars undergoing conversion. The guy couldn't have been nicer. Showed me around for more than an hour all the while explaining the process. A 951, 914s, a Targa even a 993 turbo with a V8. For those considering an 8 there is a wealth of knowledge there. He explained for those of us in Cali how the CARB is so strict that really the best and maybe only option is Chevys new E-Rod turn key crate motor. It's not CARB legal yet but hopefully will be in the next few weeks. A first class operation fully staffed and shipping parts all over the world. I got to go thru a guys order going out to the UK. Nice stuff.
well, looks like i'm on the right track -- get the damn turbo motor fixed!
08-12-2010, 10:15 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
9k is ballpark for the motor only. The conversion kit basics are 5k and going up from there. You have exhaust, radiator, fans, A/C and the list goes on... If you were to do this yourself it's really in the 20k neighborhood. I'm talking about a first class job, no hackage. Not to mention you need a big red brake upgrade hence no vacuum booster.