Manual steering thoughts
#62
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Ok that makes sense. I bet that bump in the middle of turn 8 is no fun either. On our cars with smaller tires and less speed that feedback that you are fighting inceases out feeling of grip levels. Clearly you are carrying alot more cornering load so that make a difference. Honestly I would expect that your would not respond to something like manual steering like our cars do.
Thank you.
Thank you.
With aero, big rubber, and a lot of speed, the manual steering is just way hard to control and be smooth. But with the power steering... it's a piece of cake.
TonyG
#63
Nordschleife Master
Most likely the differences are setup, not just big rubber as both myself and Eric are running 275's in front and both have aero as well. I didn't see what caster Tony is running, I'm right at 3.8 like Eric. Other differences could include spring rates as Tony is running his relatively heavy car (about 265 lbs greater than me) on fairly light springs (350/500; compared to 600/600 for me and IIRC Eric is near 900 on both ends). Track width may also play a role.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
#64
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Hey,,
I'm running 450lbs/650lbs spring rates... which are on the soft side.
I think I'll pop in my 550/750lbs springs for the POC Triple Crown at WSIR coming up and see how they test out on Friday.
My caster is about 3.5 on each side.
TonyG
I'm running 450lbs/650lbs spring rates... which are on the soft side.
I think I'll pop in my 550/750lbs springs for the POC Triple Crown at WSIR coming up and see how they test out on Friday.
My caster is about 3.5 on each side.
TonyG
Most likely the differences are setup, not just big rubber as both myself and Eric are running 275's in front and both have aero as well. I didn't see what caster Tony is running, I'm right at 3.8 like Eric. Other differences could include spring rates as Tony is running his relatively heavy car (about 265 lbs greater than me) on fairly light springs (350/500; compared to 600/600 for me and IIRC Eric is near 900 on both ends). Track width may also play a role.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
#65
Nordschleife Master
Guess you need to update your website
#66
Rennlist Member
It is amazing just what different spring rates people are running. I'm putting together a bit of a spreadsheet and the variations are great.
#67
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I just checked my caster - it was about 4.5 to 5 degrees. I was able to get each side down to 3 degrees. That's as low as I could get with the fabcar arms.
I'll be at the track on Friday, so I'll see how it compares.
I'll be at the track on Friday, so I'll see how it compares.
#68
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Most likely the differences are setup, not just big rubber as both myself and Eric are running 275's in front and both have aero as well. I didn't see what caster Tony is running, I'm right at 3.8 like Eric. Other differences could include spring rates as Tony is running his relatively heavy car (about 265 lbs greater than me) on fairly light springs (350/500; compared to 600/600 for me and IIRC Eric is near 900 on both ends). Track width may also play a role.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
For those that are thinking about the mod, I would suggest running back to back sessions on track with PS and without (remove the PS belt). Choose whichever one you like the most based either on lap times or on what is most comfortable. If you go without PS, then you will be even happier going with the true manual rack.
#69
Rennlist Member
My understanding is that we have a fairly limited amount we can adjust the Castor.
What are the pro's and con's of a lot of castor?
What are the pro's and con's of a lot of castor?
#70
Three Wheelin'
Not an expert by any means but caster I know, more caster makes a vehicle more stable in a straight line.
But can make it harder to turn in hence a plus for power steering. I'm sure others can elaborate more. On my 951 I have the caster set at max per factory specs.
But can make it harder to turn in hence a plus for power steering. I'm sure others can elaborate more. On my 951 I have the caster set at max per factory specs.
#71
why would you want less castor ?it is the biggest weakness of that front end ..
if you have only 3 deg you will have your static camber wound up to -3 or more .and they guy running 5deg of castor and less camber will always be out braking you ..
take your blinkers off and have a look at the geometry of some race cars out side this forum . 6 or 7 degrees is normal. an E30 M3 has 9 deg of Castor and was a more successful race car than a 944..
And of course it kept the power steer all the way ..
if you have only 3 deg you will have your static camber wound up to -3 or more .and they guy running 5deg of castor and less camber will always be out braking you ..
take your blinkers off and have a look at the geometry of some race cars out side this forum . 6 or 7 degrees is normal. an E30 M3 has 9 deg of Castor and was a more successful race car than a 944..
And of course it kept the power steer all the way ..
#72
Rennlist Member
Probably not blinkers as such. More an ignorance of this part of the setup equation. Not much talk of it in here.
#73
Burning Brakes
I just finished a race weeknd. The power steering was leaking on the Friday and there was no hope of fixing it so I cut the belt.
4 races over two days with no Power steering, one a 40 minute extended sprint. Its obviously manageable and I was still competetive, however I agree with others that Power makes the car much easier to drive and control, especially at the limit. I won one race and was competetive in the others. I would like to think I would have been even quicker if I had power.
I will be fixing the leak and going back to power.
4 races over two days with no Power steering, one a 40 minute extended sprint. Its obviously manageable and I was still competetive, however I agree with others that Power makes the car much easier to drive and control, especially at the limit. I won one race and was competetive in the others. I would like to think I would have been even quicker if I had power.
I will be fixing the leak and going back to power.
#74
Rennlist Member
I also wonder how much spring rate might have an effect on the 'feel' in the p/s debate?
#75
I just finished a race weeknd. The power steering was leaking on the Friday and there was no hope of fixing it so I cut the belt.
4 races over two days with no Power steering, one a 40 minute extended sprint. Its obviously manageable and I was still competetive, however I agree with others that Power makes the car much easier to drive and control, especially at the limit. I won one race and was competetive in the others. I would like to think I would have been even quicker if I had power.
I will be fixing the leak and going back to power.
4 races over two days with no Power steering, one a 40 minute extended sprint. Its obviously manageable and I was still competetive, however I agree with others that Power makes the car much easier to drive and control, especially at the limit. I won one race and was competetive in the others. I would like to think I would have been even quicker if I had power.
I will be fixing the leak and going back to power.