I am starting to think I might want to go for one of these just because. I don't want a full cage in the new temp car but what is available for a 1/2 cage and where to get them? Anyone selling theirs?

 

D'oh, just after I post this I see that someone else has just asked the same question. Hate when that happens. So the Redline one sounds like a good fit easy to use thing. Guess I'll Google that.

 

Redline bolt in roll bar is the way to go for a bolt in. John is local to me (about an hour away) and we run the same tracks, club meetings, and taste in beers.

In the way on an endorsement – he did the cage in my track car – ‘enough said.

 

The redline bar is neat, but will not pass tech anywhere.
If you need it for events requiring a 4 pt bar that will not work.

I ran an autopower 4pt, Bonneville USFRA 150 club, Sandhills open road challenge, etc

 

That is 100% correct. John's Redline Rollbar is a very nice solution, but is really a very strong harness truss. It does have some roll over protection and will be safe mount for a harness, but it will never pass any tech as a "roll bar" It has no foot pads nor ther proper angled supports either.

If you don't need to have proper roll bar and want something easy to remove/install and don't wan't to drill it is a very nice unit. It wil securly mount a harness and if the car rolls it will give you some level of protection over a simple harness bar or harness truss. If you are in a bad roll over I would not expect it to perform as good as a tradtional bolt in 4 point bar.

 

agreed

the wall thickness and OD of the tubing itself and the ability to spread the load across a wider area would make it far safer in an actual roll over event.

 

What is one of these trad 4 point bolt in bars? Something like the pic here? From what I can see/read, John's bar does bolt into 4 different points, no? Also from what I read, ones that bolt into the floor are, well, flawed.

Essentially these things are a compromise for people that don't want to cut and fab a proper cage into their road cars. It will provide a decent belt mount, and also possibly give some peace of mind. If I was racing wheel to wheel, I would not consider anything less than a good cage, nor would I be allowed to run without one. The events we do are primarily short 4-6 lap Time Trials so something like this should be better than nothing.

 

If you can't walk into your local fab shop and have a cam's endorsed version of that made for under $500au you must have racist tattoos on your face ... I can have it made for you when i do my full cage as the car will be there...

 

Yes that is a typical 4 point bolt in bar. There are 3 or 4 bolts at each mounting location. There is a backing plate the size of each mounting flange. Typically you then double nut (jam nut) or spot weld the nut to bolt.
Definitely not the solution for a full on race car, but a nice compromise for a true dual use car. And this does pass tech for many fun type events.

The other bar referred to uses existing holes in the car with a single bolt at each attaching location. Thats the part where I would not be confident in a serious roll over event.

If I were planning a rollover - would definitely take the traditional bolt in bar. I am not sure what kind of hit the blue car took to punch the rollbar through the bottom floor pan, but you can definitely bet it was enough force to shear the two lower mounting bolts in the other design. Either is an improvement compared to nothing. Ideally one could weld in a nice top plate and bottom plate at the floor location of the bolt in bar. A bit more work, but minimal cost.

just my 02

 

Yep, true comments about the comparison of the Redline bolt in and a traditional roll bar – but if you are looking for added protection and a good harness bar for a street car as opposed to a track car it is a good solution.

If you are racing…well you don’t need a roll bar – you need a cage! One of the things that amazes me the most about peoples decisions on cage protection is the door bar choices. Even in door to door racing roll overs are uncommon…but car to car contact and car to barrier contact is getting more and more common. The way some PCA guys are driving makes me want to add more door bars..!

The other balance you have to keep in mind is impact protection vs fast egress. In some situations you will want to get out of the car FAST. Add in a containment seat and a Hans (if you race…you need a Hans) it can be pretty damn hard to get out fast. I have one customer’s car that I have to crawl into and out of….takes time! Thankfully he is dropping if off at John’s for a real cage this winter.

On last comment on John’s bar – while it won’t pass a roll bar requirement tech I believe that it will offer almost the same level of protection as a bolt in roll bar. Most bolt in roll bars (jus the hoop type) are just plates bolted to sheet metal. Unless they reinforce the mounting points its not a real sturdy set up. John’s set up uses the seat belt mounting pints which are factory reinforced. The way it bolts in also significantly reinforces the body – making it quite hard to ‘fold’ the bar down.

And one other last comment (which I keep throwing out to the list!) do not ever drive a caged car without a helmet……

 

I do like where it bolts in, but dislike greatly the use of just 2 bolts for the entire main hoop loaded in shear. Not the best and I would not consider it superior to 4 3x3 plates on typical bolt in bar.


That said John's bar is well constructed and if you consider its limitions is a nice addition when you don't want to drill the floor. John's installation is 100% reversable. I have long considered one if I wanted to make a dual use street and DE car.

I would keep my stock sport seats for street use and then install the roll bar 2 race seats and harnesses the night before the DE. Ths way I can get a proper seat, harness & HANS and some added roll proection. No roll bar on the street makes the car more friendly to drive there and allows for a nice light DE/fun street car.

 

And therein lies the real dilemma

A cage on the street is VERY dangerous - boarding downright stupidity
A race car without a cage also makes no sense...

somewhere in the middle are the dual use cars.

Should mention - 4pt made the already rigid 951 chassis very stiff. LOVED IT!
free suspension upgrade.

 

Important note for DE guys – in their infinite wisdom PCA had made it illegal to use any harness other than stock with the stock seats. To use a 4/5/6 pt harness you have to have the shoulder holes in the seat….

 

How would you safely use a 5/6 point harness with the factory seats? You need a sub strap hole and proper shoulder holes...

 

with you doc - impropper use with stock seats, makes senes to me