lejams

Talking with different professional painters, all have their different paint manufacturer preferences, I'm stalled and looking for some additional info to corroborate the different stories I'm being told. Basically everyone swears by the paint they use.

With technology evolving, I want to decide which is the best paint regardless of history & reputation. Some painters use their preferred paints I propose because it's a habit or in other words this is what they learned and know so they only really feel comfortable repeating the same. That doesn't mean it's the best paint tech available today, it just means this is what they have become a custom to, when instead there may be better options.

The four paints the different shops are recommending are: Glasurit, Sikkens, PPG & Sherwin Williams. I'm fairly sure that Glasurit is what Porsche used on the 951 series, but not 100%?

Now before anyone laughs at Sherwin Williams being mentioned to paint a Porsche, I will say that I have heard very good things about SW automotive paints. In addition, one of the painters who I think would do a very good job swears by it. Having painted with Glasurit & Sikkens for years, he thinks SW is way ahead of the others in tech and will not use anything else. Another painter who is extremely, both reputable and expensive is only a Glasurit & Sikkens user.

If you really know something about automotive paint finishes, please chime in.

Tedro951

I painted for 3 years in a large body shop, then opted for a career easier on the lungs. Retired now, and no expert, but I can guarantee you'll get answers all over the place, but here's my take.

Good paint is good paint. All of the above are good paint. d A great paint job needs a stable substrate. Ask the shop about fillers, primers, and sealers. Most shops use a primer surfacer that is sanded a few hours after application. Ask about waiting a few days or longer for the primer to shrink before sanding. Todays catalyzed primers dont shrink near as much as lacquers did, but they still do. Polyester fillers shrink. Epoxy fillers are more stable. Ask them if they cut and buff after clear. Modern base/clears are easy to apply. Some people will sand the clear, then apply a flow coat and dont need to cut and buff. As long as you're happy with the texture and gloss, it should remain that way for years with proper care.

I've done a few aircraft with single stage recently, and its a nightmare compared to BC/CC. Minor flaws in CC are simple and quick to fix.

BTW, the wrong shop can make any of these brands look bad. Ask to see some work they've done, or visit the shop when they are delivering a similar job.

The price difference between these brands is not that much, so the "reputable and expensive" shop is probably that way because of quality repairs and attention to detail, not because Glasurit and Sikkens made it that way.

spyder348

tedro please give me some advice. dent in the drivers side rear crease under the little window. sux but whats the best thing if there are no cracks and the backside of the metal is accessible. cut a sheet from another car and tack it in? or can body places fix that?

spyder348

oh and lejams if you follow the clarks garage paint prep instructions im sure even a maaco job would look ok

Tedro951

We talking a 2inch dent or a 2 foot dent?

spyder348

2 inch on the crease prolly lil less damage area is about 6 inch in dia.

blown 944

I agree all top level polyurethane paints ae good

I prefer PPG. Best bet is to talk to a smaler suply company and see what they are familiar with and then get teh right stuff.

the most important stuff is under the paint

lejams

[QUOTE]The shop that is reputable & expensive is a vintage Ferrari painter here in town. Yes attention and the eye for detail he certainly has bearing that vintage Ferraris were handmade with a lot of filler. He is really a restorationist with a national reputation in Ferrari, prices starting at 12k. I know the retired Ferrari Dealer who set him up in business years ago. If I dismantle the car, he'll cut a hell of a deal, but still not cheap. Even with him cutting me a great deal, I'm not sure that I need to spend this much with him. Ten years ago, I knew of people mailing him their cars for 18k paint & mailed back out to race in Europe.

That's good advice on the prep work and the kind of info I'm looking for. Although the paints may all be quality, I understand mixing the exact recipe of additives required by individual manufactures can leave room for error whereas I'm told some of the newer tech has the manufacturer offering it with most additives in the paint making it easier to use and more reliable producing a better product.

I had shrinking on a finished paint job on a 944 hood once. I presume from what you are saying it may have originated with the primer.

One of the fellows owns his shop, but has another shop at his home for special projects. He would have his people do some preliminary work (which I'll have to find out), and then take it to his shop at his home. I get the impression he will take his time to do a very personal top job, but he wants three months to work it, (I still do the dismantling & re-assemble). Seems like a very long time.

One thing I am demanding from all is that I want a factory finish. My car is Black and has/had a great factory paint job. On any of the original un-touched parts of the car, there is absolutely no texture. It's a perfectly smooth mirror finish. I assume this is the cut & buff that achieves this finish. I have a nice E430 and in comparison, the paint pales miserably with texture everywhere. Production lines don't do Cut & Buff I guess.

I'm getting material costs anywhere from 1200.00 to over 3k, so obviously there is some fudging on the quotes.

What is BC/CC?

lejams

Thanks. I can't agree on Maaco, ( I know some people who paint for them), but yes whomever I have do the body & paint, I'm doing the complete dismantle & re-assembly work. I am talking with everyone to block it.

Tedro951

BC/CC is basecoat/clearcoat. Very forgiving, especially for those painting in a less than ideal environment. The material estimates are WAY more than the difference in coatings, at least at jobber prices. If a guy walks in off the street and buys the supplies, it could go to $2000 in a hurry. The guy that takes 3 months is probably letting the primers cure between sandings. Spyder, cutting and welding is way overkill. Pull or pound the metal as close to orig then grind, filler, sand, refill, sand, prime, block, prime, block, prime, sand, base, clear. Its a lot of steps. Thats why a good job uses $1200 in materials and $6000 in labor. A poor job uses $800 in materials and $1500 in labor.

BTW, when I refer to materials, I'm including cleaners, abrasives, reducers, activators, primers, base, clear, compound, glaze and other shop supplies.

drift a 944

Sherwin Williams paint is indeed awesome. SW and PPG were nearly the only 2 that we used at the paint shop I worked at a few years back. At the time the only car I actually painted myself was my own.

I painted my own car with SW bc/cc highest quality stuff I cant remember what its called, Ultra 7000 or something like that I think..? I'm not exactly a painter myself but for being a first time job it came out looking awesome. Since then I have used other brands but I still feel the SW paint was my favorite.

spyder348

i def think someone good can heat and pound it out as well along with sanding and filling.

spyder348

thanks tedro

Burma Shave

If you were painting your house I'd say go w/ SW. In my opinion though, SW automotive products are not worth the money. The base is unstable and most of their clears are tricky to spray. Most shops that use it are doing so because of steep discounts that are not available to the average consumer. If you are spraying yourself, the easiest product to use by far is DuPont Chromabase w/ Nason clear. If you are pricing different shops, look for a warranty and years in business in addition to quality. If you are shopping price, cheap is not always best and expensive doesn't mean high quality.

C ANDERSON

Hey Bama Lama,

How come your not pushing the Standox ?

My kalahari beige car is Standox bc/cc and could not be happier with it.

Totally agree with the Sherwin Williams being good for the house only.

Having painted now for 26 years and starting out with laquer and single stage enamel I have to say we are in the best of times with paint. All bc/cc are better than the old stuff but of course still some are way ahead than others. Dupont , PPG , Standox etc.

Clifton