ritzblitz

Whered you find this information?

Not trying to start a war, but I agree. That post about 200mph didnt make a whole lot of sense.

MPD47

He made it up, like all the other "facts" he's posted. Or his Aunt's cousin's roommate who had a beer with Hans, who worked at Porsche, told him via the intertubes this "fact."

V2Rocket

well i imagine if you had the power to get to such a speed you could try to use the stock 951 brakes to slow you down but i wouldnt be too confident in their abilities in a hard stop from such a speed.

also the suspension would have to be something pretty substantial to take the kind of beating from even the most minor road bumps at that speed. if you hit a speed bump at 10mph rather than 5 it is harsher, imagine what it would be at 200.

those are well-known facts.

and mathematically the power number should be around 500. you need the difference in speeds cubed to find the power necessary to overcome air resistance and with that in mind roughly comes to just over 500.

no i havent tried this but if i had a long enough runway and a 500hp 951 with a na 5th gear id give it a shot for science's sake.

V2Rocket

the ferrari enzo uses its underbody tunnels and whatnot to stick to the road in corners and on straights. maximum downforce of almost 1700lbs-force is achieved at about 300kph (186mph) and i dont think youll find anyone trying to corner at those speeds.

there is a lot of air going over and under a car at that kind of speed and even porsche's attempts at aerodynamics cant compensate without some help.

MPD47

Oh, so you are using a Ferrari Enzo to compare to a 944, why didn't you say so!



I've been 190+ before in a variety of cars, I'm well aware of what it requires. Guess what, 3 of them were cars with stock suspension. *GASP*. Your "mathematically" computed bull ****, is just that, bull ****. Stop GUESSING at everything and posting it as fact. Unless you have direct knowledge, proof, and data, just stay out of threads. NO ONE HERE wants to look at your clutter as you stumble around in the dark trying to claim what needs to be done to achieve certain performance goals. You literally, 9 times out of 10, have no idea what you are talking about.

Or let me lay it out a bit more plainly.

You contribute nothing here other than misinformation.

Van

Can we get back on the subject of manufacturing straight cut gears?

Who has (or has access to) a wire EDM?

V2Rocket

not trying to build a ferrari out of a 944, but the concept again is a general idea. you want something to hold you to the road because your tires alone arent going to do it if they're bolted to what essentially is a 14' wing.

Guess what, 3 of them were cars with stock suspension. *GASP*. [/quote]
and how long do you think the stock suspension would last after a few repeated runs?

well iirc your 951 was getting pretty close to 500hp so why dont you try it and let us know how well it works? scientific method, sir. i used known formulas to come up with a hypothetical answer and now it needs to be tested. then you can actually prove me wrong once you have the data to back it up.

JohnKoaWood

I have a few shops near me that can do it, and my buisness partner in our primary buisness is a trans specialist... I put this out there to see if anyone had then, where they got them, and if anyone was doing this type of work before I go and re-invent the wheel...

I am working on the deisred specs, and some modeling of the gears, and considering buying a 3D laser scanning setup so I can rapidly turn actual pieces into CAD models, then begin modifying those models.. I have access to Pro-E and Solidworks, and my daughter is getting Autocad loaded to her school laptop for her engineering courses... I figure this exercise might make a fun project to work on with her...

What I have come to gather is, anyone running straight cut or improved gears had them done as a one off, and I have yet to see a product from any vendor that is directed or "geared", pardon the pun, at improvement of the problematic gearboxes we are all running..

I for one would feel pucker every time I went WOT on a car running a stock gearbox and gear set if my car was at or over 400HP, and I know there are plenty of folks on here with WAY more than that... that are still on their origional GB... with plenty more having been offered up to the R&P or shredded gear gods....this is going to be a long range product development, but should prove to be a fun exercise, and definitely something I am going to consider for my 951 as I begin a little more modification of the rest of the drivetrain...

NOW...

is there anyone who has a lead on a beter or more robust CV joint or shaft for our cars... as if you make the trans handle the engine, the CVs can still detonate on you... even though there are high HP imports running sub 10 second 1/4 miles running CVs...

MPD47

V2, Fools like you are why many people RARELY post on this forum anymore. Why bother when you're just going to have Spencer, lead aerodynamics engineer for Ghetto 944 Garage telling you EXACTLY what you need for your car. Hell, he's purchased more oil coolers in the past year than most of us will in a lifetime!

To clear up a few points, concepts and general ideas don't hold any weight. That's exactly why you come off so ignorant in your posts, and why you annoy more than a variety of people.

Stock suspension would have lasted many repeated runs, how do I know, hmm because I've done it. That's like saying it would be dead after 50 laps of crashing curbs at the track, uhh, not so.

Scientific method, lol, go back to your SCI101 course.

MPD47

The stock gearbox is FINE with 500bhp and more if you do not power shift, or drop the clutch from a dig. 1st gear is a rolling gear, 2nd through 5th is where you power down. Between myself and two others running a large amount of horsepower we went through 5 gearboxes beating on them in a variety of ways. The CV joints, if new really are not an issue if you control gearbox sway. Part of the problem is people are launching these cars on 20+ year old gearboxes, that haven't had their lash/preload checked, with old CV joints, and gearbox mounts that are literally falling apart.

Refresh the appropriate parts and you won't have an issue. Yes, you CAN launch these cars, but you need to be prepared to eventually swap out a gearbox. Even if you launch it appropriately with a bit of clutch riding.

JohnKoaWood

I never took that one either, in fact I have been to a few college campuses, but never been a student at one...

I cut my teeth on the sweat from my brow, so while I may not be able to spew theoretics, I have been kicked around the block a few times (once upon a time had a TH400 stand up to hole shots with a few ponies trying to get out, properly set up they are good to about 1200HP or so... but you start loosing housing integrity... never really liked the R700.. )

Personally I like the point counter point system, and usually just mentally filter the "usefull" from the "less-than-usefull" in my head...

ANYONE who is willing to try to make a 200MPH run with a 500HP car running N/A gears... is not only insane, but has WAY too much time on their hands, and should be trying to do it the right way rather than piecmealing it together to get where they want to be... but that is just my opinion... I understand the financial concerns the 944 crowd has, but when a 40-50K race car comes up every few months.. there are SOME with a little less than money problems...

as far as suspension... the 944 stock suspension is not that far removed from the most robust AM suspension setups being run, with the exception of the material selection and geometry setups... there is no magic suspension setups being put under our cars... YET...

I challenge anyone to show me dual wishbone or un-equal link suspension on a 944... if you find one it is a purpose built unlimited class race car... but I'm willing to bet if one was available for purchase there would be sales a-comming..

now who thinks a 944 would be competative in the unlimited class with a MODERN suspension, 16V 3.2-3.4L twin turbo, custom cut gear set, and stock interior (other than race specific items like roll bars, seats and harnesses)? wouldn't you like to be able to keep up AND listen to your stereo at the same time?

ITB..WTF...

MPD47

John, my post was not directed at you, but well said. There comes a point where I get sick of filtering the "stupidity" from the rest. It just drags the forum down.

And yes, there are a few unlimited class 944/968 racers bombing around with dual A arm, wiz kid suspensions, as you suspected

JohnKoaWood

My street cars both have MAJOR controll of gearbox sway.. I put a solid mount in my N/A early on and have a semi solid mount in my 951... I have seen the sway braces a few have been running, and really like the idea, BUT... why not couple the rear suspension to the gearbox so the relative movement, as seen by the CV, is minimised...

Cost and class rules...

YES I am an practicing engineer. Yes I do this for a living. NO I do not have, right now, a dedicated track car... but maybe one day... maybe soon... maybe not...

I'm with you on the "refresh" I refresh my personal CVs anually, and have yet to have a problem with them.. not even have I had a problem with the bolts walking out... probably due to my OCD with replacing rather than reusing parts...

I have also been accused of having more money than brains... but don't tell my wife... I'm secretly trying to come up with enough spare parts to build myself another entire car...

JohnKoaWood

Hopefully one day in the not too distant future I hope to be able to see a street car with dual As, unequal length rears, straight cut gears, 3+L displacement having REAL fun messing with GT-2s and 3s... and the occasional vette... I'm a firm believer in keeping it true to the original design intent, while improving it to take advantage of tech improvements...

color me inspired... or just stupid..

I am probably one of the most difficult to offend people you could ever meet, so no offense taken.. I know it wasn’t meant for me... it only drags down those who are apt to be dragged down (If you don't stand for something... you fall for anything...)

Don't dismiss the "wiz kid" in all of us... I am fostering a little wiz kid of my own.. and as of right now she has NO clue what she has decided to get into with engineering, but I am making her do it the right way... my way is too hard and takes too long...

ritzblitz

And a 944 is essentially a 14' wing why??? You said 944s generate 0 lift at speed...

Where did you find the info that an enzo produces 1700lbs of downforce at 300kph?