(Pile on) Tips for making your 944 Turbo reliable at the track.
09-08-2009, 05:08 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
+1. I'm absolutely sold the reason our track car ran so cool was that we hosed the outlet on the head to a 3 way female tee (extra water temp gauge spot) and piped it BACK to the pipe over the exhaust, back to the water pump. Give the water in the head another outlet. How many people have blown a head gasket at #4 cylinder?
Oil coolers, 1 large or two small - had great success with two factory units in series.
Just plain old good maintenance - you owe it to your own family and your fellow track buddies to bring a well prepared - and as safe as practically possible - car to any event. And, I hope to see some folks at Hallett in May!!!!
Oil coolers, 1 large or two small - had great success with two factory units in series.
Just plain old good maintenance - you owe it to your own family and your fellow track buddies to bring a well prepared - and as safe as practically possible - car to any event. And, I hope to see some folks at Hallett in May!!!!
Maybe I'll do some datalogging at Mid-Ohio at the end of the month and see if there is much difference.
09-08-2009, 06:36 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
All the track days i have done are 4x 20 minute sessions and on occasion 5 if there is enough time at the end of the day. I do not push my car hard at all i think, sure i am on and off boost often.. but i short shift at 5-5.5k rpm all the time. I dont see the need to really run up to redline as its not racing! Your not against a clock.. your just there to enjoy yourself. Im not saying you need to be a moving road block in your run group, but i hardly think you need to run the car up to redline all the time to avoid that. What i do cringe at is when i am hard on the brakes into a corner and when i feel the G's while in the turn, yea your wearing the hell outta your pads and tires. Just because your out on the track does not mean you have to kill your car. This is especially true when your in the novice run groups, go as slow as you need to (within reason of course). When and if you ever get into the higher run groups, then sure you i will need to run the car harder to keep up with traffic.. but you dont HAVE to goto a higher run group if you dont want to.
I think auto-x is harder on a car than DE.. that is very quick full on and full off, not to mention even harder on suspension i think with the bumpy lots they are held in.
I think auto-x is harder on a car than DE.. that is very quick full on and full off, not to mention even harder on suspension i think with the bumpy lots they are held in.
At first I thought you were kidding.........
I run the **** out of mine and in 10+ years I have had 1 burned valve (which I knew was coming but did nothing about) and I totaled 1 car.
For me it's not worth owning if I cannot run it hard. I am not a wax and baby diaper person. Cars serve a purpose, they are a tool for me to have a good time and nothing more. Going to the track is something that cannot be substituted by anything else similar.
I run the **** out of mine and in 10+ years I have had 1 burned valve (which I knew was coming but did nothing about) and I totaled 1 car.
For me it's not worth owning if I cannot run it hard. I am not a wax and baby diaper person. Cars serve a purpose, they are a tool for me to have a good time and nothing more. Going to the track is something that cannot be substituted by anything else similar.
09-08-2009, 07:18 PM
#48
Drifting
I have done a lot of weekends (2 and 3 day) running 4 or 5 20min sessions. Some weekends there will be as many as 100 cars at the track. I can only remember a couple of big failures over the past 15 or so years. If maintained properly they hold up pretty well! 
09-08-2009, 10:18 PM
#49
Race Car
At first I thought you were kidding.........
I run the **** out of mine and in 10+ years I have had 1 burned valve (which I knew was coming but did nothing about) and I totaled 1 car.
For me it's not worth owning if I cannot run it hard. I am not a wax and baby diaper person. Cars serve a purpose, they are a tool for me to have a good time and nothing more. Going to the track is something that cannot be substituted by anything else similar.
I run the **** out of mine and in 10+ years I have had 1 burned valve (which I knew was coming but did nothing about) and I totaled 1 car.
For me it's not worth owning if I cannot run it hard. I am not a wax and baby diaper person. Cars serve a purpose, they are a tool for me to have a good time and nothing more. Going to the track is something that cannot be substituted by anything else similar.
What good is a car if you can't beat on it.....!?!?!
T
09-09-2009, 12:51 AM
#50
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Skip, don't know about data on the port - open or closed...more flow should equal more cooling in that area and I don't think the water pump and return port are capable of moving water SOOO fast that we wouldn't take heat out.
Most here that know me, and Jim, know that we share our track car. So this means the car got double duty at the track on most weekends (we've both taken it alone to tracks when one or the other has it) so, it got the dog $hit run out of it on weekends. We would be in blue or white groups, green would be in between those run groups and we could check fluids and let the car cool down a bit between sessions. It went for almost 4 years like that, 4-5 events a year, somethimes 6 until the rod broke. Reliable...I think so and it was more fun than one should be able to have.
Most here that know me, and Jim, know that we share our track car. So this means the car got double duty at the track on most weekends (we've both taken it alone to tracks when one or the other has it) so, it got the dog $hit run out of it on weekends. We would be in blue or white groups, green would be in between those run groups and we could check fluids and let the car cool down a bit between sessions. It went for almost 4 years like that, 4-5 events a year, somethimes 6 until the rod broke. Reliable...I think so and it was more fun than one should be able to have.
09-09-2009, 07:35 AM
#51
Drifting
I tend to take it a little easier on the engine in DEs (i.e. shifting ~5k rpm vs. 6k in a race). I've found the lap time difference to be ~0.5 secs on a 1:25 course. For me, not worth stressing the motor any more than that to win a DE.
I've also replaced the common failure points (ball joints, hubs, etc.) and added a KISS cooler and brake cooling.
In addition to adding the KISS cooler and appropriate inlet ducting, which lowered oil temps in the pan ~15 degrees, I found that making a window in the fender liner to let hot air escape lowered temps another 10 degrees. Even on a hot day at a race, I'm under 230F in the pan.
I think the key to reliability, as someone mentioned, is to be fastidious about checking the car before an event (and some things during the event) and proactively addressing known weak points of the engine and chassis. If something is questionable, either fix it right or stay home. After all, it's your and your fellow track junkies lives on the line. Why gamble?
I've been DEing and racing for ~10 years now, and only had 2 weekends where I couldn't run the full weekend (1 burnt exhaust valve at Daytona and an electical gremlin that wouldn't let the car run).
I also find that a lot of new track drivers have, in my opinion, backward upgrade priorities. Most want more power to boogy down the straightaways, which adds some unreliability to the motor. My upgrade priorities have always been 1) safety (it's no fun at the track if you get hurt), 2) reliability (it's no fun at the track if you're always trying to fix something, then 3) speed (through driver and suspension upgrades). Just my $0.02.
I've also replaced the common failure points (ball joints, hubs, etc.) and added a KISS cooler and brake cooling.
In addition to adding the KISS cooler and appropriate inlet ducting, which lowered oil temps in the pan ~15 degrees, I found that making a window in the fender liner to let hot air escape lowered temps another 10 degrees. Even on a hot day at a race, I'm under 230F in the pan.
I think the key to reliability, as someone mentioned, is to be fastidious about checking the car before an event (and some things during the event) and proactively addressing known weak points of the engine and chassis. If something is questionable, either fix it right or stay home. After all, it's your and your fellow track junkies lives on the line. Why gamble?
I've been DEing and racing for ~10 years now, and only had 2 weekends where I couldn't run the full weekend (1 burnt exhaust valve at Daytona and an electical gremlin that wouldn't let the car run).
I also find that a lot of new track drivers have, in my opinion, backward upgrade priorities. Most want more power to boogy down the straightaways, which adds some unreliability to the motor. My upgrade priorities have always been 1) safety (it's no fun at the track if you get hurt), 2) reliability (it's no fun at the track if you're always trying to fix something, then 3) speed (through driver and suspension upgrades). Just my $0.02.
07-17-2020, 07:21 AM
#55
Instructor
Or buy a crappy spec Miata and beat it without mercy.
I track my lightly modded 951s (chipped, Fabcar arms, bolt-in half cage, Pagid track pads, Conti Extremecontact Sport tires) several times a year and it is great fun but
i) I really like the car as both a really fun streetcar as well as an occasional track car, and don't want to break it (although I have a few times, nothing too bad),
ii) I respect that it is a 30+-year-old car and some stuff is just getting old and brittle, and
iii) Miatas are cheaper and easy to work on and fewer tears shed if it gets bent.
if I found that I was doing 10 track days a year I would likely buy a track-prepped Miata. I had one 15 years ago and would probably want a turbo or engine swap as it sucks getting passed (by everyone) on the straights...:
I track my lightly modded 951s (chipped, Fabcar arms, bolt-in half cage, Pagid track pads, Conti Extremecontact Sport tires) several times a year and it is great fun but
i) I really like the car as both a really fun streetcar as well as an occasional track car, and don't want to break it (although I have a few times, nothing too bad),
ii) I respect that it is a 30+-year-old car and some stuff is just getting old and brittle, and
iii) Miatas are cheaper and easy to work on and fewer tears shed if it gets bent.
if I found that I was doing 10 track days a year I would likely buy a track-prepped Miata. I had one 15 years ago and would probably want a turbo or engine swap as it sucks getting passed (by everyone) on the straights...:
07-17-2020, 08:14 AM
#56
Drifting
Oduradina,
How timely you resurrected this thread because I attended a DE over the weekend and couldn't finish a single session. Engine would die after running for a while. I had to be towed back to the pits 3 times before I finally put it on the trailer and gave up.
Still not sure what the issue is. I've let it idle in the driveway a few times until it gets hot. It just keeps running so I can't troubleshoot anything.....
How timely you resurrected this thread because I attended a DE over the weekend and couldn't finish a single session. Engine would die after running for a while. I had to be towed back to the pits 3 times before I finally put it on the trailer and gave up.
Still not sure what the issue is. I've let it idle in the driveway a few times until it gets hot. It just keeps running so I can't troubleshoot anything.....
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odurandina (07-23-2020)
07-18-2020, 01:50 PM
#58
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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^^nice.
Well Jerome, the thread was dormant a bit long.
i put a lot of very hard street miles on my car:
about 3 k miles just in the past month.
You never know what you might pick up w/ this thread.
re; brakes, have any of you ever had issue with Pagid dust gunking,
up your big blacks/red calipers?
is there a remedy w/ out removing the calipers and un-gunking them?
Well Jerome, the thread was dormant a bit long.
i put a lot of very hard street miles on my car:
about 3 k miles just in the past month.
You never know what you might pick up w/ this thread.
re; brakes, have any of you ever had issue with Pagid dust gunking,
up your big blacks/red calipers?
is there a remedy w/ out removing the calipers and un-gunking them?
07-20-2020, 07:52 AM
#59
Drifting
^^nice.
Well Jerome, the thread was dormant a bit long.
i put a lot of very hard street miles on my car:
about 3 k miles just in the past month.
You never know what you might pick up w/ this thread.
re; brakes, have any of you ever had issue with Pagid dust gunking,
up your big blacks/red calipers?
is there a remedy w/ out removing the calipers and un-gunking them?
Well Jerome, the thread was dormant a bit long.
i put a lot of very hard street miles on my car:
about 3 k miles just in the past month.
You never know what you might pick up w/ this thread.
re; brakes, have any of you ever had issue with Pagid dust gunking,
up your big blacks/red calipers?
is there a remedy w/ out removing the calipers and un-gunking them?
07-23-2020, 10:56 PM
#60
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
It's possible the odd gunking *removed upon getting the swapped V8 car from TPC/Texas happened from dust mixing with power steering fluid from the Porsche engine, maybe with slow leaking fluid carbonizing, then combining w/ the brake dust to form a "super gunk."
*Cool thing: i've put ~190K miles on the big blacks since sourcing from Suncoast Porsche in 2009.
*Cool thing: i've put ~190K miles on the big blacks since sourcing from Suncoast Porsche in 2009.