anders44

5c?! wtf dude, we have had 14 days over 30c or somethign now, most days hitting like 35 now its all gone and 15 though :|

at that temp it takes ages to get heat into tires.. I know as we often have it on spring/autumn trackdays, if only slight rain you will never get temp

gt37vgt

any one ever seen this kind of thing done on a 944 /924 ??
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/994/
it does away with the big bush also moves the pivot back a bit so there is less camber and toe change as the car moves wich is the fundemental issue with 944 turbos

Duke

I've always wondered why there isn't a kit like that for our cars.
You get most of the benefits as you get with a Kokeln rear setup but for a much lower price. The weight benefit of the Kokeln setup is hard to justify for the extra cost.

333pg333

Tell me about it!! Wind chill would probably be about freezing Celsius. So yeah, it was really hard to get much reaction from the tyres. The double pisser was that I went and felt the GT2's tyres later on and they were as sticky as a Nun's **** in high Summer....er well you know what I mean.
I'm sure having coolant leak didn't help me much either!

Here's a good comparison between a modified GT3 (almost Cup Car) and me. Same track, same day. He does a 1.03 and I do a 1.09 He would have springs well over 1000lbs where I have average 650lb/in effective. He doesn't have any choppyness where as I'm bouncing around like a Mexican Jumping Bean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGzMR...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiCLg_LGAA4

Van

Patrick, don't forget there's a difference between spring rates and wheel rates... I don't know what the GT3's motion ratio is, but it might be different than ours.

Maybe your shocks are too stiff.

Also, what size rims are each of you running?

333pg333

Yep true about rates. That whole effective rate at the inbound wheel with pike jargon has me beat I'm afraid.
I'm on 18's.

Duke

Are you sure you have 650 lbs effective both front and rear?
What's the real spring rates?
When I spoke with KW they said they usually do 90-120N front and 140-160N rear. That's about 500-667 lbs front an 780-890 lbs rear.
The fastest cars around here run around 800/1100 lbs springs.

Van

Duke, you talkin' wheel rates are spring rates?

333pg333

Sorry, I've got 110-170 front and the rear rates are 708lb/in effective. I thought that they just said 110nm front but I'm sure I saw 110-170 on them the other day. The rear rates were calculated by Karl from Racers Edge. The front of the car feels like a rock to push down on compared to the rear which you can get some movement on just by hand.

333pg333

Assuming those quick guys are on coils all round / no torsions either Duke?

gt37vgt

thers no performance advantage to coil springs over torsin bars .
unles you require a very liner rate as torsin bars are progresive ..
racers elimnate torsin bars as they are just far to time consuming to ajust or change .. they re also expensive .
torsine bars have the spring weight closter to the ground for lower center of mass
torsin bars also allow desighns with less unsprug weight

Duke

I was talking a bout a span of rates, the 110-170 numbers on your springs probably mean 110 N/mm and the 170 numbers is probably size related and not spring rate related.

IIRC the rear effective rate is calculated by 0.45 and that would make your rear springs 1573 lbs? Hmm..

Yes.

Chris White

On this side of the pond the fast 'stock' class guys are typically running 1000 front / 600 rear for smoother tracks. On rougher tracks the front rate comes down but the rear stays about the same.

Don't fall for the front and rear equal rate story...

Duke

Are you talking about spring rates without torsion bars?? If so that sounds insane to me. That would be a super understeering setup compared to stock. But I guess it just confirms what I said earlier, there's several ways to be fast.
For comparison the H&R Nürburgring coilover setup (which is pretty "soft") for our cars run 450/850 springs.

333pg333

It's all very confusing to me. My rears are 50Nm + the 25.5mm torsions. This equates to the 708lb/in via the formula. I won't bother taking the Torsions out of the Grey car but will do coils all round on the track car for ease of use.