333pg333

Well I'm pretty sure there has been some decent power through the 968 tranny on some race cars. I'm not sure if they were running stock axles though. Gomes spoke of over 600whp but he did say that he broke a lot of components along the way. One of the main factors is the torque curve and the right foot, or more specifically how you launch.

azmi951

http://www.taylor-race.com/ They have cool stuff that will not break. Call them to have custom axles and CVs made.

333pg333

Yeah but what about the rest of the stuff Sean?

V2Rocket

just have a new set of gears made out of hardened cryo treated titanium

lol

azmi951

Taylor can make a complete set of axles for you using true race components. I have been to their shop and seen about 5 technicians rebuilding Hewland race boxes. They are a serious shop that specializes in drive train components.

333pg333

Yeah but we keep dancing around in circles here. Sure we can put in these super duper axles, that's not the issue. What is going to happen to the rest of the driveline? Do you or anyone else have quantifiable data on this?

Tms951

Raxles.com call them up and they will make you what you want. They built me a set with all the fancy GKN stuff, plus some other extras.

George D

Patrick,

You know I'm not a bull****ter. I've got time and money into 951's. I'm no engineer, but I'll state that you have just got to stop spending time dealing with parts that haven't failed.

Get your car running, and deal with issues as they come up. I know my stock axles and stock 951 box with over 130K held up to a mustang dyno with over 500tq and similar hp. I've updated my axles and installed a six speed with a good motorsport LSD to handle about another 75hp and tq since we removed the idiot installer that used the restriction factory intake gaskets in my motor.

Since we've removed them and installed proper gaskets, my car is flying. With cool Azenis, I can spin tires in third at over 70mpm. The stock axles will hold with a good trans mount, and good engine mounts.

I don't hard launch, and when on power, the factory components will hold up to the power. Remember smooth driving is faster than the opposite.

Just get your car running. The little stuff like axles is the least of your worries.

Know I am just a 951 fan sharing with another.

Regards,

George

George D

OOPS,

This was to be a PM. I'm out of line here, on this public forum. This was to go to Patrick privately. Sorry for the mistake.

George

333pg333

Hehe, no probs George. Lucky you didn't say anything about the mods like you normally do on email.....
hahah, that's a joke folks.

I'm not worrying about this now too much but it has been a subject of discussion for some time and I don't think it has ever been quantitively resolved. All we can go on is experiences like yours and others utilising stock components on high hp applications.

There has always been the school of thought that we should leave our axles and CVs alone as they are the cheapest and easiest to access fuse, apart from the tyres themselves. I am also not a hard launcher but I'll continue to ask questions while I draw breath. I appreciate your continued frank remarks.

azmi951

I do not subscribe to the idea of a mechanical fuse. Build it right and build it once. Dont abuse it and take care of it. I run my car hard but running hard is different that abusing parts. Shock loading of parts will break stuff, it is much harder to break parts by applying steady load. Not to say it cant be done with plenty of power but it is hard. If you are talking about the transmission then I recommend keeping it as cool as possible to prevent thermal expansion of the case and gear sets thus changing the tolerances.

And as George knows, there are no parts like stock parts. To quantitatively resolve your questions on the strengths and weaknesses of a variety of combinations you will need to perform a lot of testing. A lot is exponential when converted to dollars.

333pg333

Ok so let's examine that phrase 'Build it right, build it once'. That all sounds good and I'm sure we'd all subscribe to that sentiment, but how can you do this without knowing what 'right' is?
I agree that a lot of it will be up to the driver and most of us don't rev it up to 5000rpm and drop the clutch, but let's theoretically install some of these upgraded axles / CVs. It's not these that are the weakest link anymore (I guess?), it now becomes the tranny. How much can extra power from a higher hp motor can it take through our newly installed bullet proof axles? Care to guess...me either. So I'm happy to build it once but before I lay down my money I'd like a bit more proof.
Judging by the extra size of the 968 tranny and gears, can we take that as some proof that it's stronger than a 951 version? Maybe, maybe not. I don't believe they came with case hardened 1st and 2nd gears. So do we get some custom ones made up or just hope for the best? Based on George's and other's experiences, maybe we'll be ok.

This is all just a theoretical discussion of course. The main reason why we subscribe to these forums.

toddk911

944 Renegade Hybrids make some

M758

Well as blanket statement that is just not smart. There are times that it is far better to have something be "wear item" instead of spend $$$$$$$$$$$ to make it never fail. I have been racing my 944 for 7 years and over 100 races. I won't say it never let me down, but given how hard I have run the car it has performed very well. My DNF / DNS rate is 5%. This is pretty darn good for a 25 year old car being maintained on a budget with win rate of 34% and podium finish rate of 79%.

The real key is to be smart about what you upgrade and what you keep stock. Sometimes there will be compromise. Locally we have a number of 944 racers that are flat towing thier cars to the track. One guy loads his car up and tows more junk behind him when he comes to the track. This guy happens to win alot of race. We talked a bit about CV joints and we believe that on very low cars CV wear can be increased. It can be incresed to the level that CV joints become 12-24 month automatic replacement wear items. Now does this mean the parts stink or we are abusing the cars? No, but when you make the choice to basicly overload the car with supplies and a trailer the can put extra stress on these joints. You then have two options. 1) don't drive it loaded 2) raise the ride height. not Driving it loaded means a tow vehicle and raising the ride height can deminish the performance. So now yearly CV replacement seems to be lesser of all evils.

George D

Patrick,

Install a semi solid engine mounts and semi solid trans mount. Use the factory axles and run the car.

Regards,

George