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Old 12-31-2008, 10:28 PM
  #46  
boost feen
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I have located this car which was an early white sunroof delete '86 club sport car sent to Michelin for tire testing and has lots of different stories but non the less was a raced inspired lightweight optioned car that was slipped into the states through some of the irregular channels of the 80's

WPOAA0957GN150345
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:06 AM
  #47  
turbopower
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That is still quite a bit later in production than mine
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:36 PM
  #48  
Luis de Prat
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Originally Posted by INURGRL951 View Post
I have PLENTY of 86 turbos around here and that's the only one with "957" instead of "953" in the vin.


costas
Isn't the ninth VIN digit just a check figure on North American cars?
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:05 PM
  #49  
boost feen
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National Highway Traffic Safety Institute # given to manufacturer of cars imported into America/Canada so they mean something! I believe it represents what category the car falls into from a safety standpoint.
You know like crash testing, crumple zones, safety belts, etc...
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:15 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by boost feen View Post
So it looks like they rebadged an '84 chasiss into a 951 for SOMEONE? That is the key here finding out why it was done and until you can do that its just another 951 with NO Records and a story but dont they all!
Remember, Porsche back in the mid 80's was a small automobile manufacturer and not exactly flush with cash. They recycled cars and did not crush them like GM after testing, etc. I would say, by looking at the admittedly small amount of evidence regarding the history of this car, that the factory took a preproduction '84 944 and built it into a preproduction 951. It could then have been used for say EPA smog certifications and then given/sold to an executive in the company. EPA certification puts about 5,000 miles on a car. This certification could explain the EPA build tag dated 7/85.

As an example of this, Porsche used the Turbo Cup car chassis #95OHN165105 to smog certify the Turbo S engine - after EPA certification the car was sold to Carlson Porsche in Palo Alto in late '87/early '88 where Jon Milledge put his hands on it and it entered combat in the SCCA Escort series.

The earliest magazine article I have on the 951 is dated March '85 by VW & Porsche magazine. The earliest 951 true preproduction car that is well known is the one used in the 24 hrs of Nelson Ledges by Baker in June 1984. This car was, as previously discussed, returned to Germany and dissected to analyze any weaknesses - for example the front steel control arms were upgraded to the aluminum ones for production due to some stresses found in the steel ones.

Also, it is interesting that the chassis VIN stamp at the battery box on this car does not exactly match the VIN tag on the A pillar!

John
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:14 PM
  #51  
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The comment about Porsche recycling parts reminded me of this picture (which I saw recently):




Notice the wheels on the battering ram?
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:18 PM
  #52  
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hmm I wonder if they're for sale....
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:01 AM
  #53  
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Found a couple other VINs from my old notes:

WP0AA0954GN150061 - this is supposedly the red car that Baker raced in the Playboy series in 85. I cannot absolutely confirm this information. Notes say it had a build date of 4/85, which would be inconsistent with the mfg date/VIN sequence of turbopower’s car.

WP0AA0953GN152108 – 86 Club Sport owned/raced by Jerry Nelson, wrecked at the Escort Series opener at Sears Point.

WP0xxx95zGN154076 – 86 Club Sport


Originally Posted by boost feen View Post
I have located this car which was an early white sunroof delete '86 club sport car sent to Michelin for tire testing and has lots of different stories but non the less was a raced inspired lightweight optioned car that was slipped into the states through some of the irregular channels of the 80's

WPOAA0957GN150345
Can you double check that? Pretty sure thats the VIN for the 86 CS that Holbert imported mid-season for the 86 Escort series after the Nelson and Baker Cars had been destroyed in crashes. It was originally red and painted in the Rothman's livery for the Mosport race. Later sold to Ken Williams and raced under LeRoy Cannon sponsorship. Car was supposedly retubbed sometime late in the 86 season, so hard to say if the VIN was carried over, or if from the donor. This was the car that was found under a tarp in a guy's backyard in SC about 5 years ago.



Originally Posted by boost feen View Post
Does you car have the factory black steel strut brace bolted on welded brackets right above the engine on each strut tower?
86 Cups/Club Sports did not have the strut tower brace, only 87 and later. Still should have rollcage nut plates hidden under the carpet if it was ever raced.


Originally Posted by seattle951 View Post
In regards to the document, a previous owner had written Porsche a letter with a copy of the VIN number and asked for certification that the car was an escort. Porsche verified that his car was part of the series. I recieved the letter in a vanilla envelope with about 2 inches worth of service records at the time of purchase.

Apparently, the escort series cars were shipped with a lightweight magnesium intake manifold that is is worth big money today. If true, I wish I still had the one that came with the car. (I have a LR manifold on it now)
Of the Club Sports that were imported for the 86 Escort Season, at least a couple of them were “converted” back to partial street trim and resold by the owning dealerships/race teams. Matter cages removed and some of the race bits replaced with stock parts (fiberglass hoods, plastic door mirrors, etc).

If you have all the documentation, do you have any paperwork showing the original owner – who did it go to from PMNA (Holbert)? Do you know the original color of the car?

The 86 and later club sports/cups did have mag intakes and oil pans.

Originally Posted by vette951s View Post
As an example of this, Porsche used the Turbo Cup car chassis #95OHN165105 to smog certify the Turbo S engine - after EPA certification the car was sold to Carlson Porsche in Palo Alto in late '87/early '88 where Jon Milledge put his hands on it and it entered combat in the SCCA Escort series.

The earliest magazine article I have on the 951 is dated March '85 by VW & Porsche magazine. The earliest 951 true preproduction car that is well known is the one used in the 24 hrs of Nelson Ledges by Baker in June 1984. This car was, as previously discussed, returned to Germany and dissected to analyze any weaknesses - for example the front steel control arms were upgraded to the aluminum ones for production due to some stresses found in the steel ones.
John, from the info I have, the first pic I posted on page 1, the red car was raced in the ’83 Nelson Ledges 24 hr. It was the car that supposedly had the balljoint failure and boost control problems – which led to the alum a-arms and the computer controlled boost setup (KLR). Baker raced the white car (2nd picture) in ’84. Won the Nelson Ledges, but blew the motor at Mid Ohio – cracked cylinder wall I recall. I would be interested to see that article if you have easy access to scan/email it.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:56 AM
  #54  
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9th digit in US model VIN is mandatory check digit which can be easily calculated from other 16 digits. It can be number between 0 and 9 or letter X.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle...it_calculation

In ROW VIN 9th digit is Z, at least in cars made up to few years ago.

In Porsche VIN's digits 4 through 6 tell which body style car is, which market it was build for and which safety equipment were installed at the factory. AA0 is for example coupe (4th digit, E=targa) build for Canada (5th digit, B = USA) with passive safery equipment (6th digit, 1=active) in some 911 models. 951 can have slightly different meaning for different digits but basic idea is the same.

In general Porsche reserves 0001 to 0060 VIN numbers within each series for factory internal use. First normal VIN is 0061. In case of 928 VIN's it seems this practice started in '83 MY. Very likely in other models also. In '79 to '81 first normal production car VIN was 0011 and in '82 it was 0051. I'm not absolutely sure if '78 started from 0001 or 0011.

One inside factory source says 0001 to 0050 are reserved for prototypes and 0051 to 0060 for special cars. In case of 928 none of these cars are found from Carfax and thus its unlikely any are registered in US or Canada. 951 might be differerent but at least I have too little information to make any final conclusions. Running full Carfax database search could bring up something.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...in-thread.html
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:19 AM
  #55  
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Here's friends 06/85



This is a factory prototype from 1983, early body with early dash, n/a brakes etc.

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Old 01-02-2009, 11:55 AM
  #56  
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turbopower, did you bring your car to blackforest racing? I had a very good friend that worked for them and I heard all about a preproduction turbo that was there from time to time. I am wondering if this is yours?

inurgrl, My car is also a 0957 vin and has the vin stamp on the firewall differing slightly from the tag, mine being WPOAA and firewall is WPOZZ, if memory serves correct, my car is much later than the cars in question however.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:59 AM
  #57  
turbopower
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John from Black Forest has been to my shop several times and knows my car
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:35 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by black944 turbo View Post
inurgrl, My car is also a 0957 vin and has the vin stamp on the firewall differing slightly from the tag, mine being WPOAA and firewall is WPOZZ, if memory serves correct, my car is much later than the cars in question however.
This is normal. At the time when raw body is made in factory production line Porsche doesn't know exactly what kind of safety equipment end result will have when its all done. Because of this raw body is stamped WPOZZZ like ROW cars in early part of production line and WPOAA0 or something similar US style VIN is added much later on when actual safety equipment is known. Still, US model WPOZZZ is not same as ROW WPOZZZ as 13th and in some cases possibly also 14th digit in VIN will actually tell for what market car was made for.

To many people one very confusing thing in US vs ROW VIN's is that last four digits can be same in two different cars. In one US model and in one one ROW. This means there is same MY ROW model somewhen which has for example 0957 in 14 to 17 digits. 13th is different and tells market car was made for. In bodys ZZZ stamping only difference between these two same sequence number car, US and ROW, VIN's is 13th digit.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:46 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Oddjob View Post
Of the Club Sports that were imported for the 86 Escort Season, at least a couple of them were “converted” back to partial street trim and resold by the owning dealerships/race teams. Matter cages removed and some of the race bits replaced with stock parts (fiberglass hoods, plastic door mirrors, etc).

If you have all the documentation, do you have any paperwork showing the original owner – who did it go to from PMNA (Holbert)? Do you know the original color of the car?

The 86 and later club sports/cups did have mag intakes and oil pans.
In terms of documentation, the only thing I have is the letter exchange between a PO and Porsche. The car was originally Alpine white.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:53 PM
  #60  
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I am completely clear on the WPOAA and WPOZZ my question was after that part in the 953 on most of my turbo 951 to the 957 on my early 85 turbo. If i understand correctly it's in reference to "safety" right?? I have a ROW 930 and n/a 944 but I dont think i truely seen a ROW 951 because they also had the little side marker light behind the front wheels ....none of which i seen in the states.


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