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T04E 50 trim or 60 trim turbo good for 300whp at 15psi? any users?

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Old 09-09-2008, 12:58 PM
  #16  
blown 944
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Jon, if you look closely at the pages I linked you will see an option for the KKK hotside. This uses the stock uppipe flange and downpipe flange

Other than the mounting flange and cooling (spacer see 95ONE's thread about it) it will be almost a stock fit.
Old 09-09-2008, 02:26 PM
  #17  
kevincnc
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I am also interested in the GT3071R also for a couple of reasons. First, I have spent a lot of time on my "stealth" setup with a 27/6 and I think the 2.75" inlet on the 3071 should work with my 2.75" j-boot end. I didn't have to change the alternator cable routing or throttle return spring bracket at all with the 27/6, and would like to keep it that way. Second, I already have a thermal-coated crossover with T3 flange that I picked up cheap on ebay a while back. I'm more interested in early spool-up than huge HP, around 325 HP/TQ would be nice. I'm not really interested in running over 18-20 PSI either. The 27/6 just doesn't spool up quick enough for me in lower gears at high altitude (7000+ feet.) If I swap turbos again, I will probably want to come up with a 3" downpipe also, and I will probably weld up my own 3" exhaust eventually. Another option is the SFR GT3076R with v-band and 3" downpipe.
With that in mind, I have a couple of questions also if anyone can answer (sorry to butt-in on your thread Jon)
1) Would the GT3071R spool faster than the GT3076R and still have good power to redline? The ATP page says "It spools up 1,000 RPM sooner than the older GT30R"
2) Is there any advantage of going with the T3 turbine housing instead of the K26 (internaly different?) I seem to remember that someone had to machine a little off the turbine housing where it bolts to the downpipe on a 3067R, if so that's not a problem.
3) Would a 3" downpipe and exhaust do much good with less than 350 WHP/TQ anyway?
Old 09-09-2008, 03:11 PM
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pk951
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Kevincnc
Here is a reference point Just dynoed it on a Mustang dyno (known to read 10-15% below dynojet). I dont have the charts emailed to me yet.
16 psi on 91 octane fuel.
peak 303hp @ about 5800.
315 ftlbs @ right about 4000 310 ftlbs at 3050 to 4800.
From a know lister. Can't rember his name.
Old 09-09-2008, 04:38 PM
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kevincnc
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Originally Posted by pk951
Kevincnc
Here is a reference point Just dynoed it on a Mustang dyno (known to read 10-15% below dynojet). I dont have the charts emailed to me yet.
16 psi on 91 octane fuel.
peak 303hp @ about 5800.
315 ftlbs @ right about 4000 310 ftlbs at 3050 to 4800.
From a know lister. Can't rember his name.
Sounds like Azmi951's elusive Tial turbo.
Old 09-09-2008, 04:45 PM
  #20  
porschefig
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That's AZMI951 with a Garrett GT3071R with Tial housings
Correct...Kevin beat me to it
Old 09-09-2008, 05:06 PM
  #21  
pk951
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I think if you get some head work done, a little bit more cam the # will be different with GT3071r or better yet gt3076 like 944blown was suggesting
Look at these # 2.7 not 2.5 liter
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ght=tial+turbo

lots of head work low boost!
Old 09-09-2008, 05:38 PM
  #22  
kevincnc
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Originally Posted by pk951
I think if you get some head work done, a little bit more cam the # will be different with GT3071r or better yet gt3076 like 944blown was suggesting
Look at these # 2.7 not 2.5 liter
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ght=tial+turbo

lots of head work low boost!
Well, I can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's ***, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it. Edit: If that's not funny look up Tommy Boy.

I thought we were talking about a 2.5l with a stock cam and no headwork

Last edited by kevincnc; 09-09-2008 at 06:47 PM.
Old 09-09-2008, 06:05 PM
  #23  
pk951
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What I was suggesting was that the turbo can only push only so much air through the system if there is a bottle neck lower #. The turbo you have MY SWiss made 418 RWRP @ 18 psi or so with a full t4 hot side 58AR sfr headers stage 2 .On that 2.7 they got 441 RWHP at 16psi it was head work, plus sfr headers etc.
If you look at dyno charts from a well know vendor 15psi get you about 305 give or take 20 hp.
Another reference was MY Swiss with a stage 1 kit from a well know tuner clamied 337@ 18psi on dyno pack
These are only reference points to go by for what it's worth.
Old 09-09-2008, 06:19 PM
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Kevin, I personally don't think you will not get much better spool than a k26-6. Maybe 200 rpms (doubtfull).

My opinion on your questions

1)yes if the redline is only wanting 16-17 psi. I don't believe the 1000 rpm comment especially at altitude and with the crossover config.
2) not really other than the outlet design and used availability
3) yes, any restriction after the turbo is bad, particularly for the optimum spoolup, if I could fit a 5" downpipe I would do it.

These are my opinions and this is from building and installing at least 10-12 different turbos on my car in the last year and comparing to dyno curves and boost logs around here.

I can feel your pain in regards to elevation but looking for spool in the 2000-2500 rpm range with the capability of 325 HP is unlikely if not impossible with a single unit.

to be clear if I were looking at 300-325hp I would go with the 3071r with a .63 hotside(if I could find a smaller hotside for 300hp I do that) over 350-440 or so 3076R

BTW I just went and did a couple of customer calls today and I am personally getting 15psi at 3600 in 4th and 22 at 3900 and 25 at 4100 with a huge Holset. I was thinking of this thread adn paid very close attention to the rpms and pressure.

Yes I do drive this thing every day anyone is welcome to stop by my printing company in Boulder and verify.
Old 09-09-2008, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kevincnc
I'm more interested in early spool-up than huge HP, around 325 HP/TQ would be nice. I'm not really interested in running over 18-20 PSI either. The 27/6 just doesn't spool up quick enough for me in lower gears at high altitude (7000+ feet.)

Kevin, if you haven’t tried it already, may I suggest using an adjustable cam timing gear. I bought mine from DEUTSCH NINE, it’s light weight, anodized aluminum, and really impressive quality, although some “mods” were required for my case. It is pretty much a simple installation. Advance your cam timing and enjoy the extra low rpm torque. I think you might want to consider this much easier mod prior to changing out your turbo, unless, you’re gonna do that anyways.

However, the cam gear combined with an S2 transaxle and my car pulls strong in 4th gear from about 2500 rpm, eventhough, my 50 trim turbo doesn’t spool up to full boost till about 2,900 rpm. I’m quiet happy with the adjustable cam mod. It has given me much more finesse throttle control at mid-corner and corner exit.

The engine “comes on the cam” much sooner, not only that, this mod is fine-tunnable so that you can tailor your power band to your driving style, and best of all it’s undoable, meaning that you can return the power band back to stock if you ever desire to do so.

Old 09-09-2008, 08:51 PM
  #26  
pk951
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Technoc duck
I run with t04e 50trim comp with #8turbine stage 3 stock headers gutted cat stock head stock cam tial wg 35mm .08 spring Greddy spec 2 boost controler all I can say is, it's still pulling at 220KM pulls to 260km maybe not the fasted,I'am quite happy with the power. If I change turbo Toe4 BB Gt3071r or 76 I am looking for that power band 3000 to 6000 this is not a track car street only.
Old 09-10-2008, 12:23 PM
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Thanks for the replies Guys, Sid I've never even heard of anyone getting spool up at 2500 RPM so wouldn't expect that. For $1100 or so maybe I'll try the 3071 with my current stealth srtup, and if I still don't like it then I'll probably go with a bigger turbo and give up on the stealth setup.

Trucho, that's not something I've considered so thanks for the suggestion. I haven't seen much discussion on it so will have to do some research to find out things like- do you lose top end power when you gain low-end power and how much it can be adjusted, what happens if you go too far, etc.
Old 09-10-2008, 04:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Techno Duck
Im going to go with the T04E 57 trim. It seems like exactly what im looking for. Thanks for all of the input, i really do appreciate it. Hopefully ill have everything in by December or so.
Oh, I just thought you might want to re-consider. Compare compressor maps for the 50 trim vs. 57 trim. Looks like the 50 trim outflows the 57 trim.

At 15 psig of boost (roughly pr = 2.0), the 50 trim turbo flows a maximum of 44 lb/min, the 57 trim only flows 40 lb/min; above that, at pr = 2.4, the 50 trim flows 46 lb/min while the 57 trim only flows 41 lb/min?, and at max pr = 2.6, the 50 trim flows 48 lb/min (at 65% efficiency), while the 57 trim squeezes out 44 lb/min (at a lower 60% efficiency - hotter air)?

I can't see why one would choose the 57 trim over the 50 trim?

http://forcedinduction.net/images/co...ps/T04e_50.gif

http://forcedinduction.net/images/co...ps/T04e_57.gif
Old 09-10-2008, 05:54 PM
  #29  
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You really have to look at where the turbo is going to be used. He is not looking at 41 or 46 # but more like 32-35

if you look at the maps you will see that the surge line is more to the left which means it will make pressure earlier and on either unit the 2.0 pr falls right in the middle or close to the middle of the best efficiency .

you would have to plot the maps to see what I am saying using the # per minute at lower levels than just high rpm and boost.
Old 09-10-2008, 06:22 PM
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I’m not sure I understand you point completely, but good point about not focusing on just the high rpm and boost.

Ok, so…. if we set the zone of interest (let’s call it the sweet spot) to be a rectangle bounded between 30 and 35 lb/min and p.r. between 2.0 and 2.4, the compressor efficiency islands are still higher for the 50 trim (78%, 76%, and 74%), while the 57 trim trim efficiencies in “that sweet spot zone” drop down to 70%.

So wouldn’t the 50 trim compressor still out perform the 57 trim even in that sweet spot?


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