vt951

The good news is that it lasted until the checkered flag on my last session of the Putnam DE yesterday. The bad news is I had to drive 3 hours home without use of my clutch (started the car with a good old 1st gear lurch and then shifted without pushing the clutch pedal all the way home ).

I'm trying to figure out what is wrong before I order a bunch of parts that I may not need. If you have any educated guesses, I'd appreciate it!

Symptoms:
- Clutch stays engaged even when pedal is pushed in (therefore, difficult or impossible to get it into any gear when clutch pedal is pushed in).
- Clutch pedal springs back up as normal when released.
- When driving, if I push on the clutch pedal at all, it vibrates.
- I did NOT find any fluid leak in the driver foot well.

Other than the vibration thing, people are telling me it sounds like it's just the slave and/or master cylinder, right? Jason at Paragon said the vibration could mean something wrong with the clutch, like one of the springs came out and is stuck (between the clutch and pressure plates, I guess?).

I'm going to try to look inside the clutch inspection hole tonight to see if I can see anything wrong in there, but if you have any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks!!!

PorscheMD

Kinda sounds like your pilot bearing foze up and is welded to the end of the drive shaft. If your pedal is coming back up then you don't have a hydraulic problem. Only other thing I would say is a problem with your release bearing coming apart and not pulling the pressure plate back. Do you hear any noise when the clutch is in or out? Hope that helps

vt951

Oh yes, I forgot that symptom. There was a wierd noise, I think when the pedal is pushed in, like a tapping or clicking noise. I only noticed it when I had the hood open and was standing next to the car while someone else was pushing in the pedal.

"Kinda sounds like your pilot bearing foze up and is welded to the end of the drive shaft" ...doesn't sound good. Any ideas how to fix that? Thanks for your help!

PorscheMD

A tapping or clicking noise coming from the bell housing area would be more of a release bearing coming apart or the release bearing fork arm broke and it is hitting the pressure plate diaphram. That would be the same symptom as a frozen pilot bearing except a pilot bearing problem would make a whining noise instead of a clicking noise. To answer the question about how to fix it depends on the damage to the end of the drive shaft. If it is too severe, you would have to replace the central tube. If it isn't too bad then you could file and sand the end of the shaft back into shape.

vt951

Ok, well I guess I'm going to need to have a look inside the bell housing to see the carnage that probably lies within. Thanks again.

Anybody else have any ideas?

vt951

I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong place, but I can't see anything beyond what's show in this pic of the inspection port (from clarks garage). Is there another way to look in where I might be able to see the clutch disk?

KuHL 951

If you were able to drive it for 3 hours I doubt it's your pilot bearing seizing as the shaft wouldn't turn or it would squeal like Ned Beatty from the love scene in 'Deliverance'. The clutch is not disengaging but it slides independent of anything ahead of it. Check that clutch fork, like mentioned above if one arm breaks it cants the TOB and the clutch will not travel far enough to disengage or actually jam. It could also be your aluminum TOB guide is worn through and not allowing the disc to travel far enough to disengage. Check for swollen areas in the connecting hose b/t the master and slave; if it has a bulge and hasn't ruptured yet it will displace quite a bit of fluid and compromise clutch travel. It's hard to see much inside that inspection hole without a bore scope. Just some thoughts. I hope you find it and it's just external hydraulics. Good Luck

xsboost90

sounds to me like your master or slave is giving up fluid past the seal. Its not pushing enough pressure to fully disengage the clutch and therefore its chattering when you let it out- like if say you were riding the clutch on take off it would chatter normally.

PorscheDoc

The symptoms of the pedal vibrating badly when you rest pressure on it, and the noise when you push in the pedal are very consistent with a bad throw out bearing. Typically a pilot bearing will squeal when the clutch pedal is up. Also possibly a broken clutch fork would cause the no shifting issue. Almost sounds like you might have one or more problems in the bellhousing with the clutch components.

vt951

One thing I didn't mention above is that this problem came about gradually. I had been noticing a little bit of vibration in the clutch pedal during shifts (while pushing in or letting out the clutch) over the last few weeks. It progressed quickly while I was at the track. Throughout the weekend, it felt like the clutch was engaging at lower and lower positions of the pedal (lower = pushed further in toward the floor). Sorry I didn't explain this up front. Now that I've heard a few theories, I'm guessing this is a critical piece of info!

vt951

Dan, I didn't notice any leaks in the driver footwell, and I don't think my reservoir level dropped over the weekend. Wouldnt' that indicate that the fluid is not getting past the seals?

vt951

Ok, so reading through all of the advice given, I'm seeing a lot of "check the clutch fork". I don't know what that is... how can I check to see if that's broken? Is it inside the bell housing? If it is broken, do I need to worry about damage to other components, such as throw out bearing, pilot bearing, clutch disk, pressure plate, flywheel, slave cylinder, etc?

I read Clark's instructions on replacing the clutch. Although it sounds daunting, I'm seeing some opportunities to upgrade stuff that has to be removed along the way, such as exhaust, WG, and flywheel. Perhaps the porsche gods are telling me I need more HP...

Thanks everyone for all the help!

KuHL 951

Picture your TOB spinning when you press the clutch down. It engages with the two contact surfaces on the clutch fork until it stops. With a good TOB the bearings spin freely and the contact surface stays stationary during clutch operation. If the TOB is starting to bind and wear it will cause excessive wear on the clutch fork contacts from the additional spinning contact. That wear will only get worse until the disc can't travel far enough to fully engage. From the noise you said got progressively worse I would suspect the TOB has bought it, thrown a circlip, or is getting hung up on a worn out guide tube. It sure doesn't sound like a hydraulic problem to me with no leaks and the pedal returns on it's own. You won't know for sure until you see if the clutch slave rod moves the correct distance when someone depresses the clutch, if it does it not hydraulic and you need a clutch job.

PorscheDoc

Personally, I think it will be one of those see what is wrong when you get in there. You can rule out the clutch master and slave by having someone operating the clutch pedal and watching the slave cylinder push the clutch fork in and out. If the cylinder operates fully, then start tearing into the clutch job. Once you get in there you will see what failed. Doesn't really matter if it is the release bearing, fork, pilot bearing, disc, etc, as you will replace it all while in there.

vt951

Thanks guys, I will do that. Curious, how much should the slave cylinder move the fork (approx.) when the clutch pedal is pushed in and out?