Tuner Magazine Covers 951 450+ HP Racecar
05-13-2008, 03:53 PM
#16
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Nice one Chef-B. I'd love to hear more of this car and it's origins. Wonder if there is film of it on the track?
05-13-2008, 04:06 PM
#17
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Chefbob,
If you have any contact information for the builders of the car, please email it to kevinsims@autobahnambitionmag.com.
We want to get the story right. Thank you for posting the information on the car's history.
Kevin Sims
If you have any contact information for the builders of the car, please email it to kevinsims@autobahnambitionmag.com.
We want to get the story right. Thank you for posting the information on the car's history.
Kevin Sims
05-13-2008, 04:34 PM
#18
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Kevin YGM. I read that article, and to say that somethings were mis-represented is an understatement. Do a quick google for Woodie Weiss in ITE ITS NER LRP Watkins Glenn etc..
333pg333 there was a TON of in car video, I'm not sure if woodie has it or if Jim or Jason has it, but if I come across it I will post it up....
333pg333 there was a TON of in car video, I'm not sure if woodie has it or if Jim or Jason has it, but if I come across it I will post it up....
05-13-2008, 05:05 PM
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Kevin YGM X2, I included Woodie's email address this time. I had to check with him first. Please get a hold of him, he still gets excited about his amazing former car.
http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/n...on=tageditmany
That's one of the last pictures I have of the car, that is Jim Lockton in the picture. Please note the side mount exhaust
http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/n...on=tageditmany
That's one of the last pictures I have of the car, that is Jim Lockton in the picture. Please note the side mount exhaust
Last edited by chefbob; 05-13-2008 at 05:06 PM. Reason: picture didn't work
05-13-2008, 09:10 PM
#21
Drifting
I have not read the story as AA will not subscribe me but I may be able to shed some light on this.
There is obviously some confusion.
I work for IMA. I have never heard anyone at IMA claim to have built this car. It was purchased IIRC from Woodie through Jim Lockton. It was on Ebay and was found by accident while looking at an auction for something unrelated to the car. It was then pulled from Ebay and sold privately to the current owner.
Now since ownership has changed hands I can tell you that the car has been gone through completely and a lot of the car is different then when Woodie owned it.
We have changed engines, shocks, brakes, wiring harness, alternator, torque shaft, CV shafts you name it. Added electric P/S, Motec telemetry and improved electrical system to name a few. The tub and body are about all that remain. From all outward appearences it's the same car but underneath it is as far from what it was when purchased as anything could be.
This car is truely remarkable. Woodie and Worldwide Wines did a fantastic job with the preparatin of this car. It is unmached at every track we have taken it to. From a 7 second lead after four laps at Road Atlanta to passing 23 cars at Rennsport in one lap after starting from the back due to a broken CV shaft in qual. to setting an ITE enduro record at the 12 Hours at the Point at Summit Point Raceway with a 1:20.x on a 2 mile track with 50+ cars to get around.
This was all done after it was improved by IMA. Like I said, Woodie and WW deserve a lot of credit for a nice car but it was not as competetive by todays standards.
I can assure you there was no intention to deceive anyone. For Christ sake I have posted pics about it here and have confirmed it was Woodie's car in the past here on Rennlist.
We have built a reliable 1000+hp paddle shifted carbon bodied f'in nasty 993 and now an equally powerfull Daytona Prototype. ALL of the work on the 993 was done at IMA with the exception of the body which was done by Crawford Composites. We also developed the engine and electronics for the DP and Crawford modifiyed the chassis to accept the 1000hp twin turbo monster engine.
Please trust me, we don't need to claim to build cool **** that we didn't. Stop by the shop and it is full of stuff that we can show that is noone but ours. Period.
Thanks.
Chris
There is obviously some confusion.
I work for IMA. I have never heard anyone at IMA claim to have built this car. It was purchased IIRC from Woodie through Jim Lockton. It was on Ebay and was found by accident while looking at an auction for something unrelated to the car. It was then pulled from Ebay and sold privately to the current owner.
Now since ownership has changed hands I can tell you that the car has been gone through completely and a lot of the car is different then when Woodie owned it.
We have changed engines, shocks, brakes, wiring harness, alternator, torque shaft, CV shafts you name it. Added electric P/S, Motec telemetry and improved electrical system to name a few. The tub and body are about all that remain. From all outward appearences it's the same car but underneath it is as far from what it was when purchased as anything could be.
This car is truely remarkable. Woodie and Worldwide Wines did a fantastic job with the preparatin of this car. It is unmached at every track we have taken it to. From a 7 second lead after four laps at Road Atlanta to passing 23 cars at Rennsport in one lap after starting from the back due to a broken CV shaft in qual. to setting an ITE enduro record at the 12 Hours at the Point at Summit Point Raceway with a 1:20.x on a 2 mile track with 50+ cars to get around.
This was all done after it was improved by IMA. Like I said, Woodie and WW deserve a lot of credit for a nice car but it was not as competetive by todays standards.
I can assure you there was no intention to deceive anyone. For Christ sake I have posted pics about it here and have confirmed it was Woodie's car in the past here on Rennlist.
We have built a reliable 1000+hp paddle shifted carbon bodied f'in nasty 993 and now an equally powerfull Daytona Prototype. ALL of the work on the 993 was done at IMA with the exception of the body which was done by Crawford Composites. We also developed the engine and electronics for the DP and Crawford modifiyed the chassis to accept the 1000hp twin turbo monster engine.
Please trust me, we don't need to claim to build cool **** that we didn't. Stop by the shop and it is full of stuff that we can show that is noone but ours. Period.
Thanks.
Chris
and i will be by tomrw to take a look see
05-13-2008, 10:27 PM
#24
Drifting
Now since ownership has changed hands I can tell you that the car has been gone through completely and a lot of the car is different then when Woodie owned it.
We have changed engines, shocks, brakes, wiring harness, alternator, torque shaft, CV shafts you name it. Added electric P/S, Motec telemetry and improved electrical system to name a few. The tub and body are about all that remain. From all outward appearences it's the same car but underneath it is as far from what it was when purchased as anything could be.
This car is truely remarkable. Woodie and Worldwide Wines did a fantastic job with the preparatin of this car. It is unmached at every track we have taken it to. From a 7 second lead after four laps at Road Atlanta to passing 23 cars at Rennsport in one lap after starting from the back due to a broken CV shaft in qual. to setting an ITE enduro record at the 12 Hours at the Point at Summit Point Raceway with a 1:20.x on a 2 mile track with 50+ cars to get around.
This was all done after it was improved by IMA. Like I said, Woodie and WW deserve a lot of credit for a nice car but it was not as competetive by todays standards.
I can assure you there was no intention to deceive anyone. For Christ sake I have posted pics about it here and have confirmed it was Woodie's car in the past here on Rennlist.
We have changed engines, shocks, brakes, wiring harness, alternator, torque shaft, CV shafts you name it. Added electric P/S, Motec telemetry and improved electrical system to name a few. The tub and body are about all that remain. From all outward appearences it's the same car but underneath it is as far from what it was when purchased as anything could be.
This car is truely remarkable. Woodie and Worldwide Wines did a fantastic job with the preparatin of this car. It is unmached at every track we have taken it to. From a 7 second lead after four laps at Road Atlanta to passing 23 cars at Rennsport in one lap after starting from the back due to a broken CV shaft in qual. to setting an ITE enduro record at the 12 Hours at the Point at Summit Point Raceway with a 1:20.x on a 2 mile track with 50+ cars to get around.
This was all done after it was improved by IMA. Like I said, Woodie and WW deserve a lot of credit for a nice car but it was not as competetive by todays standards.
I can assure you there was no intention to deceive anyone. For Christ sake I have posted pics about it here and have confirmed it was Woodie's car in the past here on Rennlist.
I have an article coming out about my car, and I didn't mention the previous owner. I have some of his initial suspension, rollbar, transmission, and other parts that he may have installed, but this article is about my car. I felt nothing about my cars current state was related enough to thank the man that I paid to buy the car and take it to where it is today. I appreciate his previous intentions, but it's no longer that car.
Don't see the need to rewrite the story, or apologize to your subscribers. The current car is truly awesome, as was it's past history. In terms of the article, the history didn't seem revelant to get the scriviners intention, or the spirit of the car. An autobiograpy of the car in another form would require revelant history.
This online publication is one of the best out there. Kudo's to the folks doing this great work. I appreciate all that goes into this new online magazine. Great stories, great cars, and great writers and photographers.
Regards,
George
05-13-2008, 11:09 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I just got read the article and can understand why Tool was wound up. While I agree IMA is certainly a very capable builder, the article implied that they built the car from the ground up.
A couple of excerpts:
There was a very liberal use of the work "We" in that paragraph and really implies that IMA started with a stock '86 tub and built in from there.
I assume that is supposed to be John Milledge not John Miller, and the context implies that IMA contracted him to design the intake, and it looks to be Milledges standard same CF intake that Worldwide installed.
Once again, the implication is that IMA designed the body work and had Crawford build it, when in reality that was done by Worldwide.
I guess in general I agree that the article is quite misleading and implies the IMA built it from scratch. While it sounds like IMA took it to the next level, the extensive tub modifications, Crawford bodywork, etc that WWW did is still a significant part of this car - we are way beyond a previous owner installing a different transmission or swaybars here.
A couple of excerpts:
Q: How was the frame altered in building your racecar?
A: We started with the car we had at the time, which was an ’86 951. The basic tub is pretty much the same from year to year. We modified so much that in the end it wouldn’t have mattered what we started with. We chopped off the front end from the shock tower forward. The structure was fabricated to install two radiators and an intercooler in between them. The chassis had been reinforced throughout by a roll-cage. We also strengthened the car’s suspension points. We removed the car’s floor and installed a thicker sheet of steel to protect the driver against anything coming through the floor during an accident. Safety is just as important as performance in building a racecar. We found that the added reinforcements in-creased the car’s overall rigidity. Stripping out the car’s interior in traditional racecar fashion, our blue 951 is almost a custom car.
A: We started with the car we had at the time, which was an ’86 951. The basic tub is pretty much the same from year to year. We modified so much that in the end it wouldn’t have mattered what we started with. We chopped off the front end from the shock tower forward. The structure was fabricated to install two radiators and an intercooler in between them. The chassis had been reinforced throughout by a roll-cage. We also strengthened the car’s suspension points. We removed the car’s floor and installed a thicker sheet of steel to protect the driver against anything coming through the floor during an accident. Safety is just as important as performance in building a racecar. We found that the added reinforcements in-creased the car’s overall rigidity. Stripping out the car’s interior in traditional racecar fashion, our blue 951 is almost a custom car.
Q: In general, what was done to the engine to prepare it for racing?
A: We modified the engine quite a bit.....John Miller produced a custom intake manifold based on a barrel valve design with a custom plenum. The manifold’s air/ fuel flow is very unrestrictive and vastly improved.....
A: We modified the engine quite a bit.....John Miller produced a custom intake manifold based on a barrel valve design with a custom plenum. The manifold’s air/ fuel flow is very unrestrictive and vastly improved.....
Q: What is the process that Crawford uses to build your car’s custom Carbon-Fiber body?
A: The process is quite unbelievable. All we did was provide him with the car, drew them a few sketches, and away they went building the body…
A: The process is quite unbelievable. All we did was provide him with the car, drew them a few sketches, and away they went building the body…
I guess in general I agree that the article is quite misleading and implies the IMA built it from scratch. While it sounds like IMA took it to the next level, the extensive tub modifications, Crawford bodywork, etc that WWW did is still a significant part of this car - we are way beyond a previous owner installing a different transmission or swaybars here.
05-13-2008, 11:10 PM
#27
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Not trying to stir the pot so to speak, but in the article it led me to believe that you guys built the car from the chassis up. Granted the car was gone through, but from just looking at some of the pics in the article a lot of parts are very recognizable. Maybe Jim and Jason will chime in, I don't want to mis-speak.
George, your car may have some add ons (roll bars etc...) Not really comparing apples to apples.
George, your car may have some add ons (roll bars etc...) Not really comparing apples to apples.
05-13-2008, 11:11 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
In case anyone is interested - this is the original for sale ad by Worldwide:
The race car you are looking at is the fourth and final 944 Turbo built by Worldwide Motorsports. It started life as a 1987 Porsche 944. The tub was stripped and acid dipped. It was then fixtured to our in house surface plate, the floor and firewall were removed and a complete tube chassis was fabricated inside the remaining tub. It was then painstakingly assembled with the best components available. Many of the parts on this car are one off pieces made by some of the most respected names in the racing industry. No expense was spared in building this car! This car currently holds lap records at Lime Rock Park and Watkins Glen. Car has PCA and SCCA log books.
Chassis:
Full tube frame with removable tubular front clip (shock towers forward)
1.5x.095 DOM cage with NASCAR Door bars, Tilton Pedals with remote reservoir and brake bias adjuster, Momo steering wheel with integral push to talk for radio, Sweet quick release steering wheel coupler, Borgeson collapsible steering shaft, Kirkey Deluxe Road Race seat, Removable firewall and transmission tunnel. Many other tricks as well.
Body:
One of a kind Carbon fiber IMSA/Trans-Am style clam shell nose and Front splitter/under tray by Crawford Composites (we own the molds). Fiberglass door skins, Rear quarters and Rear bumper with extensive modifications. Carbon fiber Crawford rear wing. All Lexan Glass.
Roof drip edges filled and radiused. Many other tricks here as well.
Front Suspension:
Bilstein Coil-over Strut, All pick-up points converted to Spherical bearings. Billet Aluminum, Center Lock, Pin Drive Front uprights with huge Double Row bearings by Fabcar Engineering (we own rights and drawings). Billet Aluminum front lower control arms, Porsche 944 turbo cup car steering rack with spherical bearing tie rods mounted in double shear. Ferrari F50 Brembo calipers with aluminum brake hats and floating rotors. 17x 11 3 piece BBS wheels
Rear Suspension:
Bilstein Rear coil over shocks, all pick-up points converted to Spherical Bearing. Fabricated rear torsion tube with Billet Aluminum caster/camber adjusters. 996 twin turbo rear calipers with aluminum brake hats and floating rotors 17 x 11 ½, 3 piece BBS wheels
Engine:
500+ hp 2.5L 4 cyl. Turbo. Motec M4 engine management and Data Acquisition, Dry sump oiling system, Carrillo Rods, JE Pistons, rotating assy. Balanced, Dual Ceramic ball bearing turbo, hand built 321 Stainless Steel equal length header and merge collector with Tial waste gate, All internal engine parts coated by Swain Coatings. Block converted to Steel sleeves, Cylinder head and block o-ringed, Fidanza Alum. Flywheel, ARP Studs everywhere. 944 NA cylinder head with extensive porting and flow testing. Carbon Fiber Barrel Valve intake by Jon Milledge Engineering.
Transmission:
968 speed with Guard Transmission Race limited slip differential. Set up for Trans cooling. Hand polished CV joints. Custom shift rod and arm, Custom Trans mount and cross member.
Fuel System:
Custom 22 gal. Dual sump check ball collector fuel cell by Fuel Safe, remote roll-over valve, Stainless AN lines and fittings, electronic fuel level gage (that actually works), Billet aluminum Aeromotive fuel pump and filter.
Misc
Motec Data Acquisition dash and LED shift light, with lap timer and beacon
Torque tube mounted mini alternator
ARC touch pad control switches with built in circuit breakers
10 # Phoenix Halon fire system
AMB transponder
2 complete exhaust systems from Turbo back (1 with Muffler)
Spares Included with sale of car
1 complete fresh 2.5L engine exactly the same as the engine in car
1 spare header with Tial waste gate
1 complete Motec M4 engine management system with engine and car harness
1 968 gearbox fresh same as in car
1 set of drive axles
1 Complete set of Pin Drive Center Lock billet aluminum front uprights and hubs
1 Complete set of Pin Drive Center Lock Rear control arms and hubs
All suspension tools and service parts (nuts, bolts, spare drive pins etc.)
1 Set of Billet Aluminum Front lower control arms
1 Set of Front Rotors (1 L 1 R)
1 Nose
1 Front bumper
1 Front splitter
1Left and 1 Right front fender quarter
1Left Rear Quarter Panel
1 set of wing brackets
3 carbon Gurney lips for wing
1 set of Carbon Brake ducts
2 complete sets of BBS wheels
2 Radiators
1 Intercooler
1 Windshield
Porsche 944 turbo PCA GT 3 race car, fresh 500+Hp 2.5L Carbon Barrel valve intake, Motec M4 ECU and data acquisition dash, 6 speed, Crawford Composites body and wing., Billet Alum uprights . Center lock wheels. Full cage with NASCAR style door bars.3 sets of BBS wheels, spare engine and gearbox Huge spares package. Lap records @ Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. PCA and SCCA log books.
See link for full list and spec sheet.
$90,000 or best reasonable offer
The race car you are looking at is the fourth and final 944 Turbo built by Worldwide Motorsports. It started life as a 1987 Porsche 944. The tub was stripped and acid dipped. It was then fixtured to our in house surface plate, the floor and firewall were removed and a complete tube chassis was fabricated inside the remaining tub. It was then painstakingly assembled with the best components available. Many of the parts on this car are one off pieces made by some of the most respected names in the racing industry. No expense was spared in building this car! This car currently holds lap records at Lime Rock Park and Watkins Glen. Car has PCA and SCCA log books.
Chassis:
Full tube frame with removable tubular front clip (shock towers forward)
1.5x.095 DOM cage with NASCAR Door bars, Tilton Pedals with remote reservoir and brake bias adjuster, Momo steering wheel with integral push to talk for radio, Sweet quick release steering wheel coupler, Borgeson collapsible steering shaft, Kirkey Deluxe Road Race seat, Removable firewall and transmission tunnel. Many other tricks as well.
Body:
One of a kind Carbon fiber IMSA/Trans-Am style clam shell nose and Front splitter/under tray by Crawford Composites (we own the molds). Fiberglass door skins, Rear quarters and Rear bumper with extensive modifications. Carbon fiber Crawford rear wing. All Lexan Glass.
Roof drip edges filled and radiused. Many other tricks here as well.
Front Suspension:
Bilstein Coil-over Strut, All pick-up points converted to Spherical bearings. Billet Aluminum, Center Lock, Pin Drive Front uprights with huge Double Row bearings by Fabcar Engineering (we own rights and drawings). Billet Aluminum front lower control arms, Porsche 944 turbo cup car steering rack with spherical bearing tie rods mounted in double shear. Ferrari F50 Brembo calipers with aluminum brake hats and floating rotors. 17x 11 3 piece BBS wheels
Rear Suspension:
Bilstein Rear coil over shocks, all pick-up points converted to Spherical Bearing. Fabricated rear torsion tube with Billet Aluminum caster/camber adjusters. 996 twin turbo rear calipers with aluminum brake hats and floating rotors 17 x 11 ½, 3 piece BBS wheels
Engine:
500+ hp 2.5L 4 cyl. Turbo. Motec M4 engine management and Data Acquisition, Dry sump oiling system, Carrillo Rods, JE Pistons, rotating assy. Balanced, Dual Ceramic ball bearing turbo, hand built 321 Stainless Steel equal length header and merge collector with Tial waste gate, All internal engine parts coated by Swain Coatings. Block converted to Steel sleeves, Cylinder head and block o-ringed, Fidanza Alum. Flywheel, ARP Studs everywhere. 944 NA cylinder head with extensive porting and flow testing. Carbon Fiber Barrel Valve intake by Jon Milledge Engineering.
Transmission:
968 speed with Guard Transmission Race limited slip differential. Set up for Trans cooling. Hand polished CV joints. Custom shift rod and arm, Custom Trans mount and cross member.
Fuel System:
Custom 22 gal. Dual sump check ball collector fuel cell by Fuel Safe, remote roll-over valve, Stainless AN lines and fittings, electronic fuel level gage (that actually works), Billet aluminum Aeromotive fuel pump and filter.
Misc
Motec Data Acquisition dash and LED shift light, with lap timer and beacon
Torque tube mounted mini alternator
ARC touch pad control switches with built in circuit breakers
10 # Phoenix Halon fire system
AMB transponder
2 complete exhaust systems from Turbo back (1 with Muffler)
Spares Included with sale of car
1 complete fresh 2.5L engine exactly the same as the engine in car
1 spare header with Tial waste gate
1 complete Motec M4 engine management system with engine and car harness
1 968 gearbox fresh same as in car
1 set of drive axles
1 Complete set of Pin Drive Center Lock billet aluminum front uprights and hubs
1 Complete set of Pin Drive Center Lock Rear control arms and hubs
All suspension tools and service parts (nuts, bolts, spare drive pins etc.)
1 Set of Billet Aluminum Front lower control arms
1 Set of Front Rotors (1 L 1 R)
1 Nose
1 Front bumper
1 Front splitter
1Left and 1 Right front fender quarter
1Left Rear Quarter Panel
1 set of wing brackets
3 carbon Gurney lips for wing
1 set of Carbon Brake ducts
2 complete sets of BBS wheels
2 Radiators
1 Intercooler
1 Windshield
Porsche 944 turbo PCA GT 3 race car, fresh 500+Hp 2.5L Carbon Barrel valve intake, Motec M4 ECU and data acquisition dash, 6 speed, Crawford Composites body and wing., Billet Alum uprights . Center lock wheels. Full cage with NASCAR style door bars.3 sets of BBS wheels, spare engine and gearbox Huge spares package. Lap records @ Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. PCA and SCCA log books.
See link for full list and spec sheet.
$90,000 or best reasonable offer
05-13-2008, 11:15 PM
#29
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We would like to state that there was obviously some confussion surrounding the article. IMA Motorsports did not misrepresent the car or thier work on the car.
The article was done from the perspective of its current state. For whatever reason, the car's history was not really discussed. We were mostly concerned with the car's current history rather than its entire past.
With this said, we still plan on "tweeking" the article out of respect for the work that Woody and his crew did on the car. They did a great job and we want to hear thier story. Plus, knowing the whole story makes for a more interesting and "complete" article. As an owner of a 951, I want to learn as much about the car purely out of love for the hobby.
Thank you for your patience.
Kevin Sims
Autobahn Ambition
The article was done from the perspective of its current state. For whatever reason, the car's history was not really discussed. We were mostly concerned with the car's current history rather than its entire past.
With this said, we still plan on "tweeking" the article out of respect for the work that Woody and his crew did on the car. They did a great job and we want to hear thier story. Plus, knowing the whole story makes for a more interesting and "complete" article. As an owner of a 951, I want to learn as much about the car purely out of love for the hobby.
Thank you for your patience.
Kevin Sims
Autobahn Ambition
05-13-2008, 11:17 PM
#30
Drifting
I still have not seen the article. I don't get it from AA. I have tried to subscribe in the past and it won't let me. If the above is quoted from the article I can understand why there is a problem for some people. What I stated is fact.
I would like to see the complete article if someone could send it to me please.
I would like to see the complete article if someone could send it to me please.