is the paragon 3012 rear coilover shock adjustable
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Hi Bret - I've never driven our cars fitted with the 3012 kit but they look extremely nice and look like they could easily be fitted with helper springs. You say they are reletivly cheap so can I ask what you pay for these over in the US?
I'm running Escourt Cups (very outdated by todays standards) and Beni is running KW Var.3 which are simply excellent but I'd like to go something a little different even though I can get a great price on the Var.3's.
The 3012's look as good as a set of Penske's and these are serious money!
I'm running Escourt Cups (very outdated by todays standards) and Beni is running KW Var.3 which are simply excellent but I'd like to go something a little different even though I can get a great price on the Var.3's.
The 3012's look as good as a set of Penske's and these are serious money!
#18
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Mark, why would you go something different to the V3's? Especially if you can get them for a great price. I assume you have an agency for them as you're offering them for sale? I just think for a road/DE car they seem to be perfect.
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I'm not so sure about kw. a friend purchised a nice kit for his car and had nothing but problems. I've also heard alot about corrosion problems. may not be an issue in Australia but it is for us in the Midwest. anyway he took them off and used koni's from Stasis and all was right with the world. I had koni motorsports shocks on my last car (double adjustable aluminum housing) and I was very pleased with them. had street bilsteins before that and i dont believe they stay consistent on the track. not apples to apples obviously but I'm likely just going to get the koni 3012 and then have my front yellows converted by true choice to double adjustable. i'll be less then 2 grand into the operation and i'm pretty sure I know what i'm going to get. plus i'm somewhat accustomed to adjusting the konis. I need to do a bit more research but thats the way i'm leaning right now.
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I dont know all the details but this was second hand info from a friend of mine about another friend. my old roommate had v2 kws and really liked them and had no issues as far as I know.
how much track driving do you do? days a year/month
do you run data acc? are they consistent lap after lap? or do they overheat on the track like most street shocks do
spring rate options? progressive springs?
type of spring?
who are the US vendors with a kit for the 951?
adjustability? is it both rebound and compression?
what type of shock it it? oil gas both ?
what is the warranty? does track use void it?
can i have them serviced local or do i need to send back to uk or where ever they are from.
these are someone the questions I would ask the vendor but if you know the answers to some or all then great. please speak up.
I'll look into it some more but like I said, my experience is limited to what I've seen and owned and its pretty hard to go wrong with koni. If i wanted to spend 4grand I would be looking at ohlin, koni, and moton jrz. but Ive heard of people having problems unless they have them rebuilt often. dont know if its true but I'm very good friends with at least 5 moton owners but at this point no way can i spend that much.
I need something consistent and reliable that can deal with street and track driving. both conditions are brutal but in totally different ways.
I need to read more about the 3012 but from what I can tell it looks very similar to the racing shocks I had on my old car. I beat the hell out of that suspension with 700/800R springs and it held up magnificantly. pounded relentlessly over bad city streets in the winter then worked out on the track all season. anyway i need to find out the part number but they were top of the line costing about 4000 back in 2000 but I paid much less when i purchised them used.
how much track driving do you do? days a year/month
do you run data acc? are they consistent lap after lap? or do they overheat on the track like most street shocks do
spring rate options? progressive springs?
type of spring?
who are the US vendors with a kit for the 951?
adjustability? is it both rebound and compression?
what type of shock it it? oil gas both ?
what is the warranty? does track use void it?
can i have them serviced local or do i need to send back to uk or where ever they are from.
these are someone the questions I would ask the vendor but if you know the answers to some or all then great. please speak up.
I'll look into it some more but like I said, my experience is limited to what I've seen and owned and its pretty hard to go wrong with koni. If i wanted to spend 4grand I would be looking at ohlin, koni, and moton jrz. but Ive heard of people having problems unless they have them rebuilt often. dont know if its true but I'm very good friends with at least 5 moton owners but at this point no way can i spend that much.
I need something consistent and reliable that can deal with street and track driving. both conditions are brutal but in totally different ways.
I need to read more about the 3012 but from what I can tell it looks very similar to the racing shocks I had on my old car. I beat the hell out of that suspension with 700/800R springs and it held up magnificantly. pounded relentlessly over bad city streets in the winter then worked out on the track all season. anyway i need to find out the part number but they were top of the line costing about 4000 back in 2000 but I paid much less when i purchised them used.
#21
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Sounds like they may well have been the 28 series. Were they adjustable for both bump and rebound without removal?
How did you find them on the bad city streets with such high spring rates?
The 28 series are a later design - like an evolution of the 3012 series from what I understand, hence the similarity. The main differences seem to be that the bump adjustment on the 3012 is not quite as simple as the 28 series and the for the 28 series, the adjustment is more biased to the low speed shock movements.
How did you find them on the bad city streets with such high spring rates?
The 28 series are a later design - like an evolution of the 3012 series from what I understand, hence the similarity. The main differences seem to be that the bump adjustment on the 3012 is not quite as simple as the 28 series and the for the 28 series, the adjustment is more biased to the low speed shock movements.
Last edited by Geneqco; 04-25-2008 at 11:31 PM. Reason: error
#22
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I dont know all the details but this was second hand info from a friend of mine about another friend. my old roommate had v2 kws and really liked them and had no issues as far as I know.
how much track driving do you do? days a year/month My average will be 2 days a month. I have had them on the track about a dozen times so far. So far, great
do you run data acc? are they consistent lap after lap? or do they overheat on the track like most street shocks do No data as yet so I don't know about heating issues sorry
spring rate options? progressive springs? I'm sure there are options. I don't believe they use progressive
type of spring?
who are the US vendors with a kit for the 951? Not sure if that.
adjustability? is it both rebound and compression? Yes.
what type of shock it it? oil gas both ? Oil
what is the warranty? does track use void it? Local to you. I doubt track use would void it though
can i have them serviced local or do i need to send back to uk or where ever they are from. Again, I don't know
these are someone the questions I would ask the vendor but if you know the answers to some or all then great. please speak up.
I'll look into it some more but like I said, my experience is limited to what I've seen and owned and its pretty hard to go wrong with koni. If i wanted to spend 4grand I would be looking at ohlin, koni, and moton jrz. but Ive heard of people having problems unless they have them rebuilt often. dont know if its true but I'm very good friends with at least 5 moton owners but at this point no way can i spend that much.
I need something consistent and reliable that can deal with street and track driving. both conditions are brutal but in totally different ways.
I need to read more about the 3012 but from what I can tell it looks very similar to the racing shocks I had on my old car. I beat the hell out of that suspension with 700/800R springs and it held up magnificantly. pounded relentlessly over bad city streets in the winter then worked out on the track all season. anyway i need to find out the part number but they were top of the line costing about 4000 back in 2000 but I paid much less when i purchised them used.
how much track driving do you do? days a year/month My average will be 2 days a month. I have had them on the track about a dozen times so far. So far, great
do you run data acc? are they consistent lap after lap? or do they overheat on the track like most street shocks do No data as yet so I don't know about heating issues sorry
spring rate options? progressive springs? I'm sure there are options. I don't believe they use progressive
type of spring?
who are the US vendors with a kit for the 951? Not sure if that.
adjustability? is it both rebound and compression? Yes.
what type of shock it it? oil gas both ? Oil
what is the warranty? does track use void it? Local to you. I doubt track use would void it though
can i have them serviced local or do i need to send back to uk or where ever they are from. Again, I don't know
these are someone the questions I would ask the vendor but if you know the answers to some or all then great. please speak up.
I'll look into it some more but like I said, my experience is limited to what I've seen and owned and its pretty hard to go wrong with koni. If i wanted to spend 4grand I would be looking at ohlin, koni, and moton jrz. but Ive heard of people having problems unless they have them rebuilt often. dont know if its true but I'm very good friends with at least 5 moton owners but at this point no way can i spend that much.
I need something consistent and reliable that can deal with street and track driving. both conditions are brutal but in totally different ways.
I need to read more about the 3012 but from what I can tell it looks very similar to the racing shocks I had on my old car. I beat the hell out of that suspension with 700/800R springs and it held up magnificantly. pounded relentlessly over bad city streets in the winter then worked out on the track all season. anyway i need to find out the part number but they were top of the line costing about 4000 back in 2000 but I paid much less when i purchised them used.
#23
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Phil R bought those previously mentioned konis from me. I found them to be very very solid. They were my first adjustable shock and I found them to be quite easy to adjust. Rebound was up top, like the koni yellows, and bump was on the side of the shock body, simply turned by a flathead screwdriver with noticeable clicks, 12 in all. It was great, tighten them up nicely for a track session, turn them back down for the ride home. Also, the were much lighter than anything else I've had w/ their alum. bodies. They were used on a b5 chassis A4 w/ 700f/800r springs and were tolerable on our crappy streets. Valving seemed very good.
I may lean toward the KW v3's, but have a ton of time to do research as I'm nowhere near to a significant susp purchase at the moment.
I may lean toward the KW v3's, but have a ton of time to do research as I'm nowhere near to a significant susp purchase at the moment.
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I've had Koni 3012's for 3 years now. They are are holding up fine. The handling of the car improved greatly after install.
Adjustment was easy, but I don't adjust them every weekend either.
Adjustment was easy, but I don't adjust them every weekend either.
#25
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tconn,
I see you have also rebuilt your m030's up front into double adjustables, have you found this change to be useful in getting the car setup properly? Like many on this thread I am planning for the 3012's next winter with t-bar delete and a rebuild on the fronts, also m030, but cannot decide if it is worth the extra $'s to rebuild them as double adjustables. Thoughts, comments...spring rates?![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Thanks.
I see you have also rebuilt your m030's up front into double adjustables, have you found this change to be useful in getting the car setup properly? Like many on this thread I am planning for the 3012's next winter with t-bar delete and a rebuild on the fronts, also m030, but cannot decide if it is worth the extra $'s to rebuild them as double adjustables. Thoughts, comments...spring rates?
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Thanks.
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yes I would think its very worth the extra $. I drove a friends car with the double adjustable konis and the car felt way better then mine. when you convert them to double adjustable you are basically getting a totally different shock back. I believe the internals would be good match for the 3012s.
Paragon seems to recommend rebuilding the fronts to double adjustable when adding the 3012s in the rear. the one issue is time. it will likely take koni 5 or so weeks to return shocks during peak season so waiting till winter is a good idea. the other option is a company called True Choice. they do work for lots of big name race teams and will likely have a faster turn around time.
Paragon seems to recommend rebuilding the fronts to double adjustable when adding the 3012s in the rear. the one issue is time. it will likely take koni 5 or so weeks to return shocks during peak season so waiting till winter is a good idea. the other option is a company called True Choice. they do work for lots of big name race teams and will likely have a faster turn around time.
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Thanks Phil. Yeah I have contacted both Koni and True Choice for estimates, definitely a winter project given their schedules and doing a T-bar delete. I'm sure any rebuild will offer the feel of a totally different suspension as like most mine are going on 19 years and just over 100,000 miles. The advantage/disadvantage with the double adjustables is more variables to work through and understand the effects of, but thats half the fun...I hope.
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The upgrade to double adjustable front struts is well worth
the extra cost.
My car feels completely different than it did before the mods.
I'm running 375# front springs and 475# rear springs.
the extra cost.
My car feels completely different than it did before the mods.
I'm running 375# front springs and 475# rear springs.
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Thanks tconn, would you consider those spring rates streetable?
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I think it's fine on our roads. They are fairly smooth.
The suspension feels more complient than it did before.
You'll have to consider the condition of the roads you drive.
I was in Ma. a while back before I upgraded the suspension,
the stock suspension was to stiff for those roads!
The suspension feels more complient than it did before.
You'll have to consider the condition of the roads you drive.
I was in Ma. a while back before I upgraded the suspension,
the stock suspension was to stiff for those roads!