View Poll Results: Are we too stingy and secretive with new ideas?
Yes
38
70.37%
No
16
29.63%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
According to a non-lister "We are stingy and selfish"!
02-07-2008, 06:05 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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According to a non-lister "We are stingy and selfish"!
I was talking to a friend of mine today who used to watch the 944 sections of rennlist and he said that he did not enjoy it much because members were too secretive with what they had done with cars. I wouldnt say "selfish," as he did, but personally, looking through the past few weeks threads I have noticed that many listers dont want to talk about their setups or explain whether or not it worked, and if it did work, how they pulled it off.
I am also a member of a Z31 forum and I have to admit that everyone shares pretty much everything they know about the VG30ET motors and how to tweak them. Maybe 951/S2/968's are still in too many competitve classes to be giving away secrets, but it does seem like we should share more about the cutting edge ideas people are coming up with for this car. >_>.
I find the write-up on how to do the 924 Carrera GT headlights "not so great" because they dont fit the car well in sheet metal form w/o tons of hassle. Coincidentally the vendors also sell ones that dont fit either.
Im going to post a writeup over the next couple weeks that describes how to do this job in fiberglass making an exact mold of the bucket area in the car. This results in an exact fit for the individual car. Im going to document exactly how to make a nice sealed beam unit work in the box, and also how to make an exact fitment lense that will look and fit better than Porsche's IMO. I guess Im not afraid to share exactly how it was done because I dont care if vendor "x" runs off and uses my idea to make $$$$$$$$.
What are you fellow listers opinions on the secretivness that frequents threads in this forum?
I am also a member of a Z31 forum and I have to admit that everyone shares pretty much everything they know about the VG30ET motors and how to tweak them. Maybe 951/S2/968's are still in too many competitve classes to be giving away secrets, but it does seem like we should share more about the cutting edge ideas people are coming up with for this car. >_>.
I find the write-up on how to do the 924 Carrera GT headlights "not so great" because they dont fit the car well in sheet metal form w/o tons of hassle. Coincidentally the vendors also sell ones that dont fit either.
Im going to post a writeup over the next couple weeks that describes how to do this job in fiberglass making an exact mold of the bucket area in the car. This results in an exact fit for the individual car. Im going to document exactly how to make a nice sealed beam unit work in the box, and also how to make an exact fitment lense that will look and fit better than Porsche's IMO. I guess Im not afraid to share exactly how it was done because I dont care if vendor "x" runs off and uses my idea to make $$$$$$$$.
What are you fellow listers opinions on the secretivness that frequents threads in this forum?
02-07-2008, 06:33 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
I probably don't speak for the majority (or at least I hope I don't for the rennlist's sake), but the main reason I don't post anything about my car is that I don't feel it's worth the aggravation. Why bother sharing what I've done or am in the process of doing, if it's going to be deconstructed and scrutinized by the group (I see this a lot).
There are other car forums that I post on, not a Porsche platform, where ideas/ projects are shared freely among it's users without being subjected to Spanish inquisition type questioning. In those forums, I am much more forth coming with what I have going on.
-Ok short rant off
There are other car forums that I post on, not a Porsche platform, where ideas/ projects are shared freely among it's users without being subjected to Spanish inquisition type questioning. In those forums, I am much more forth coming with what I have going on.
-Ok short rant off
02-07-2008, 07:18 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
There is definitely a preponderance of this behaviour and once it starts, it's hard to stop. However I guess if someone spends thou$and$ of dollars researching and developing proprietary parts that may need to sell to cover costs, then you can understand that they would keep some, or all of this info to themselves or the people prepared to pay for the privilege. Having said that there are plenty of threads just like the one you're proposing re the lights where people do some mods and post them step by step in detail.
By the way, there will be some of those lights that actually fit available soon. They are being developed as we speak and will probably have a choice of illumination. ie single or twins.
By the way, there will be some of those lights that actually fit available soon. They are being developed as we speak and will probably have a choice of illumination. ie single or twins.
02-07-2008, 07:26 PM
#6
On the Radar
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I was agreeing with everyone nit picking and scrutinizing a thread.
There are some chodes (they know who they are) That like to make people think everything is top secret or dont want to post DIY info publicly but would rather send it via PM.
Other than that I have had a mostly positive experience with this site.
I know if I need tech advice or want to buy & sell parts this is the place.
There are a lot of knowledgeable people who not only share their wisdom but will send parts for free or on the cheap to help someone out of a jam. I have myself (toot toot) have done this on a few occasions
and I believe you have done this on many occasions yourself Dan.
There are some chodes (they know who they are) That like to make people think everything is top secret or dont want to post DIY info publicly but would rather send it via PM.
Other than that I have had a mostly positive experience with this site.
I know if I need tech advice or want to buy & sell parts this is the place.
There are a lot of knowledgeable people who not only share their wisdom but will send parts for free or on the cheap to help someone out of a jam. I have myself (toot toot) have done this on a few occasions
and I believe you have done this on many occasions yourself Dan.
02-07-2008, 08:05 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
yeah ive fronted parts, sent them for free, for shipping or given deals. I think this is a great community and though it has its faults and occasional chodes its overall good.
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02-07-2008, 09:31 PM
#8
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I find that there are people on here that like to keep things secret because it makes something seem so much more special than it is. This applies to both vendors and individuals, there is really one of each that really comes to mind and ultimately they are quite connected. Truth is from what I have seen there is nothing special at all. It is allot of the same stuff other people have or other vendors sell. But if you are dumb enough to buy into the bull**** them you will think that these things are the greatest most advanced things ever. If you do that then you are willing to either pay out the *** for a turbo you can get from another vendor for half as much or follow the progress of a listers relatively simple build like it is the Holy Grail.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
02-07-2008, 10:58 PM
#9
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I find that there are people on here that like to keep things secret because it makes something seem so much more special than it is. This applies to both vendors and individuals, there is really one of each that really comes to mind and ultimately they are quite connected. Truth is from what I have seen there is nothing special at all. It is allot of the same stuff other people have or other vendors sell. But if you are dumb enough to buy into the bull**** them you will think that these things are the greatest most advanced things ever. If you do that then you are willing to either pay out the *** for a turbo you can get from another vendor for half as much or follow the progress of a listers relatively simple build like it is the Holy Grail.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
Improving on a Porsche designed engine is not an easy thing to do. I admire anyone who who undertakes such a task. It takes a lot of R&D to create something that has any advantage over Porsche's work and ultimately I think it yields an cutthroat situation for both the vendor and the consumer.
02-08-2008, 12:37 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
I find that there are people on here that like to keep things secret because it makes something seem so much more special than it is. This applies to both vendors and individuals, there is really one of each that really comes to mind and ultimately they are quite connected. Truth is from what I have seen there is nothing special at all. It is allot of the same stuff other people have or other vendors sell. But if you are dumb enough to buy into the bull**** them you will think that these things are the greatest most advanced things ever. If you do that then you are willing to either pay out the *** for a turbo you can get from another vendor for half as much or follow the progress of a listers relatively simple build like it is the Holy Grail.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
02-08-2008, 12:58 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
I find that there are people on here that like to keep things secret because it makes something seem so much more special than it is. This applies to both vendors and individuals, there is really one of each that really comes to mind and ultimately they are quite connected. Truth is from what I have seen there is nothing special at all. It is allot of the same stuff other people have or other vendors sell. But if you are dumb enough to buy into the bull**** them you will think that these things are the greatest most advanced things ever. If you do that then you are willing to either pay out the *** for a turbo you can get from another vendor for half as much or follow the progress of a listers relatively simple build like it is the Holy Grail.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
You will find that if you can see through the bull**** that the people doing he coolest things are willing to share because they are doing the build for themselves and for enjoyment and not for admiration of others on an internet forum or to make there product seem much better than it is in order to be able to compete with much larger vendors that sell the same thing for much less.
The only people that have reason to keep secrets are those that build real race engines, have actually done something significant and need to keep a competitive edge, they never post about there real developments on here or don't post at all. Funny thing is the two best "race" engine builders don't even have "race" in there name. The ones that use things associated with the occult in there products do. It is all about an image, don't buy into it.
Plain and simple secrets on this board are a means of making something seem to be much more than it is. Either to sell products or to make one feel important or more significant than they are.
There are still people who have and do put a lot of time and money into some particular products that shouldn't be expected to just publish their findings, but equally there is certainly some aspect of bull**** that pervades this forum.
02-08-2008, 01:09 AM
#12
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Nothing that required machine work, and none of the body work. I also did not do the powder coating. Scott Gomes installed the tech and also did the final dyno tune, though I did alot of tuning on the street prior to that.
Otherwise though I did not do all the work it was almost all done in the shop I worked at, and while I did not do all of the work on it there I helped with all the work done and did alot of it on my own. We built the engine in the shop, though we did not do the machine work on the head or crank.
Did I do all the work my self in my garage, no. Did I ship it off to some shop and get it back done, no not even close. Other than body work I would I put in half the hours that went into this car myself. We built this car as a shop project so many of us worked on it and were all excited to take part in it. Overall five of us worked on it and we were all friends who worked at the same shop, we did alot of work off hours and when it was slower in the winter.
Here we are the day we put the engine in. This was a big day as it had taken about 18 months to get to this point. This car was a learning expirience for all of us. Bobby is on the left (I bought the car from him with the engien in pieces), Justin on the right and Jesse manning the engine hoist.
Otherwise though I did not do all the work it was almost all done in the shop I worked at, and while I did not do all of the work on it there I helped with all the work done and did alot of it on my own. We built the engine in the shop, though we did not do the machine work on the head or crank.
Did I do all the work my self in my garage, no. Did I ship it off to some shop and get it back done, no not even close. Other than body work I would I put in half the hours that went into this car myself. We built this car as a shop project so many of us worked on it and were all excited to take part in it. Overall five of us worked on it and we were all friends who worked at the same shop, we did alot of work off hours and when it was slower in the winter.
Here we are the day we put the engine in. This was a big day as it had taken about 18 months to get to this point. This car was a learning expirience for all of us. Bobby is on the left (I bought the car from him with the engien in pieces), Justin on the right and Jesse manning the engine hoist.
02-08-2008, 01:18 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Nice one!
PS by the way, the people that you pre-supposed were tight may not be as tight as you assumed.
PS by the way, the people that you pre-supposed were tight may not be as tight as you assumed.
02-08-2008, 01:21 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Don't you people see what it really is? It's the boost, man, it's the boost. Other forums don't have near the vindictive posting seen here. Heck, even other forums here on Rennlist don't have it. Think about it. What were you like before you were exposed to the boost? Even when you drive slow, you feel it's call. Begging you to mash the throttle a bit more just before the shift, it's the boost. What makes you upgrade chips, upgrade waste gates, and upgrade turbos, it's the boost. And then finally you crank that black **** to destruction, what makes you rebuild it stronger and start the whole process over again...it's the boost!
02-08-2008, 01:23 AM
#15
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Also both have there own products that they are very open about info on. Mainly headers, intakes and intercoolers. The thing that drew to Lindsey was how much info about there product they put out there.
The thing about turbos is there are really only so many compressor wheels out there that workon these cars, no one is selling a turbo with a proprietary compressor wheel, so why not just say what it is so you can decide which is best for you.
To the credit of Precision Motorsports they are a real deal race car fabrication shop. They race them selves and do chassis prep and body work for a number of big race teams. These guys are the real deal.