Electric water pump conversion info
04-24-2007, 02:16 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Electric water pump conversion info
Sorry I haven't been able to respond to all your emails about the 951 for sale. I've been out of town on business and haven't been able to check these boards or my email much. I'm going to be selling my truck so I'm going to drive the 951 a while until I get a new truck. I'll probably get it painted in the meantime, too, and then put it back up for sale. Anyway, I'll try to send some info about the conversion when I can for those interested. So far the system works perfectly.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/SANY0010.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cw/9513010.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ontier1002.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cw/9513007.jpg
If you haven't seen the ad, here's some basic info:
This conversion consists of:
A low amperage Meziere electric water pump (running off 15A
mini fuse for 10 months so far) with adjustable flow.
Capable of 55 gpm of flow even at idle.
Two billet aluminum plates block off the stock water pump location and have three outlets for water to flow out.
Eliminates the turbo water pump on 951 models since
the turbo is cooled with the main electric water pump.
Stock timing belt replaced with wider belt which fits
the whole width of the timing gears (even the
continental belt is too narrow). New timing belt (made
in Italy and costs $16.00) is shorter and goes from
the cam to the crank with nothing in between to make
it fail (the stock water pump pulley is eliminated).
The tensioner is against the rear of the belt (doesn't contact the ribs on the belt) and even if it fails, the belt would just glide across it and not break since the gear surface is plastic. The belt is almost a direct fit from the cam to the crank so the tensioner doesn't need much pressure against it. Some sort of lubricant or wax could probably be applied to the rear of the belt for added protection.
The belt is made for a Honda Accord and Toda Racing used to sell a belt marketed as having a 250,000 mile life. I think they still sell some kind of racing belt, though.
Since there is no water pump pulley to drag
anymore,that equals more power (and mpg).
New timing belt configuration capable of higher
horsepower loads since the belt is wrapped around the
crank closer rather than pushed away with the stock
tensioner. Wider belt + more gear contact + easier
maintenance since there is no need for the complicated
and ultra-precise tensioning methods of the stock
set-up.
Water flow is reversed so the head is cooled before
the cylinders (reverse flow cooling like the new
Corvettes which is the key to how they make so much
power). http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html
The water flow through the radiator is reversed and is adjustable so it pushes water up from the bottom and out through the top connections.
There are a system of check valves that allow water flow to circulate through the engine until hot and then the thermostat opens to flow the water through the head. The temperature stays steady between the two marks on the stock temp gauge. I used a laser temperature reader to find any hot spots in the system but couldn't find any. There are adjustable valves for the main line pressure, warm-up pressure and turbo flow.
A polycarbonate shield between the timing belt and
balance shaft belt so the timing belt won't be damaged
by a broken balance shaft belt.
Heater valve relocated (so the clutch won't be ruined
by coolant in the event of failure) and the coolant
flow from the rear of the head is never obstructed(no steam pockets),
for better reliability.
I'll try to answer any questions when time permits and I wish anyone who wants to build this at home the best of luck. You could probably find ways to improve it, too!
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/SANY0010.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cw/9513010.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ontier1002.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cw/9513007.jpg
If you haven't seen the ad, here's some basic info:
This conversion consists of:
A low amperage Meziere electric water pump (running off 15A
mini fuse for 10 months so far) with adjustable flow.
Capable of 55 gpm of flow even at idle.
Two billet aluminum plates block off the stock water pump location and have three outlets for water to flow out.
Eliminates the turbo water pump on 951 models since
the turbo is cooled with the main electric water pump.
Stock timing belt replaced with wider belt which fits
the whole width of the timing gears (even the
continental belt is too narrow). New timing belt (made
in Italy and costs $16.00) is shorter and goes from
the cam to the crank with nothing in between to make
it fail (the stock water pump pulley is eliminated).
The tensioner is against the rear of the belt (doesn't contact the ribs on the belt) and even if it fails, the belt would just glide across it and not break since the gear surface is plastic. The belt is almost a direct fit from the cam to the crank so the tensioner doesn't need much pressure against it. Some sort of lubricant or wax could probably be applied to the rear of the belt for added protection.
The belt is made for a Honda Accord and Toda Racing used to sell a belt marketed as having a 250,000 mile life. I think they still sell some kind of racing belt, though.
Since there is no water pump pulley to drag
anymore,that equals more power (and mpg).
New timing belt configuration capable of higher
horsepower loads since the belt is wrapped around the
crank closer rather than pushed away with the stock
tensioner. Wider belt + more gear contact + easier
maintenance since there is no need for the complicated
and ultra-precise tensioning methods of the stock
set-up.
Water flow is reversed so the head is cooled before
the cylinders (reverse flow cooling like the new
Corvettes which is the key to how they make so much
power). http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html
The water flow through the radiator is reversed and is adjustable so it pushes water up from the bottom and out through the top connections.
There are a system of check valves that allow water flow to circulate through the engine until hot and then the thermostat opens to flow the water through the head. The temperature stays steady between the two marks on the stock temp gauge. I used a laser temperature reader to find any hot spots in the system but couldn't find any. There are adjustable valves for the main line pressure, warm-up pressure and turbo flow.
A polycarbonate shield between the timing belt and
balance shaft belt so the timing belt won't be damaged
by a broken balance shaft belt.
Heater valve relocated (so the clutch won't be ruined
by coolant in the event of failure) and the coolant
flow from the rear of the head is never obstructed(no steam pockets),
for better reliability.
I'll try to answer any questions when time permits and I wish anyone who wants to build this at home the best of luck. You could probably find ways to improve it, too!
04-24-2007, 11:48 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
The whole system has new hoses and custom made fittings. My goal was to eliminate the stock water pump and the related bearing and seal failures as well as the resulting consequences from the timing belt breaking. Reverse the cooling flow and to eliminate the narrow stock and continental timing belts, which don't even cover the cam and crank gears completely, and have to be adjusted with a $500. tool or questionable kricket tool. I had a double row timing chain installed, for a Chrysler Conquest/Mitsubishi Starion, but took it off because I didn't know if harmonics would cause a problem. The belt was quieter and doesn't rob any horsepower. A Chevy Corsica timing chain and gears might work, too.
The electric pump is a gravity feed type and has to be mounted low on the car. The radiator works either way and I can control the amount of cooling by slowing or speeding up the coolant flow through the radiator by pushing it up from the bottom without gravity interfering. Also, by connecting it to the one lower radiator inlet, it gave me all the ones on the top to send to the head inlet, turbo and coolant tank. The outlets from the engine would have to flow up if I used the top connections. Also, if I connected the pump hoses to the top of the radiator, I'd have to run the hoses from the bottom of the car up to the top and then from the lower radiator connection up to the top of the engine to the head.
The electric pump is a gravity feed type and has to be mounted low on the car. The radiator works either way and I can control the amount of cooling by slowing or speeding up the coolant flow through the radiator by pushing it up from the bottom without gravity interfering. Also, by connecting it to the one lower radiator inlet, it gave me all the ones on the top to send to the head inlet, turbo and coolant tank. The outlets from the engine would have to flow up if I used the top connections. Also, if I connected the pump hoses to the top of the radiator, I'd have to run the hoses from the bottom of the car up to the top and then from the lower radiator connection up to the top of the engine to the head.
04-24-2007, 09:40 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
As far as components and cost:
About $350. for Meziere water pump (a cheaper one would probably work but the Meziere has a two year warranty) and a single outlet pump will work, all belt rollers replaced for timing and balance belt drives, new crank gear, various radiator hoses to cut sections off of and several lengths of 3/4", 1",1 1/2" and 2" hoses(Napa's a good source), steel reinforced outlet hose for turbo, two 1/2" and one 3/4" brass ball valves, several copper ez-sweat t-fittings and elbows, three 3/4" 90 degree brass fittings, $16. Honda timing belt and stock balance shaft belt, two billet aluminum plates and the cost to cut them in the shape of the stock water pump gasket, two brass fittings to house the thermostats, two brass check valves and end fittings, two polycarbonate plates to cover the rear and front of the timing belt assembly, I also replaced the rear timing belt cover (hard to get!) and one front one but it's not required - Probably about $550. total, losts of elbow grease and running around town to Home Depot, Napa, CarQuest, AutoZone and Lowe's.
About $350. for Meziere water pump (a cheaper one would probably work but the Meziere has a two year warranty) and a single outlet pump will work, all belt rollers replaced for timing and balance belt drives, new crank gear, various radiator hoses to cut sections off of and several lengths of 3/4", 1",1 1/2" and 2" hoses(Napa's a good source), steel reinforced outlet hose for turbo, two 1/2" and one 3/4" brass ball valves, several copper ez-sweat t-fittings and elbows, three 3/4" 90 degree brass fittings, $16. Honda timing belt and stock balance shaft belt, two billet aluminum plates and the cost to cut them in the shape of the stock water pump gasket, two brass fittings to house the thermostats, two brass check valves and end fittings, two polycarbonate plates to cover the rear and front of the timing belt assembly, I also replaced the rear timing belt cover (hard to get!) and one front one but it's not required - Probably about $550. total, losts of elbow grease and running around town to Home Depot, Napa, CarQuest, AutoZone and Lowe's.
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11-19-2007, 01:58 AM
#8
Drifting
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne
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the pump is rated at 4 or so liters per minute not massive . and interesting can you tell how much it is actually pumping?? is it speed controlled ?
did you notice the head cooler than it was befor ?
have you had it in 40 C traffic ?
I am definatly going to do it seems you can get away with not alot of pump .
i think i will use 2 turbo coolant pumps .one circulate and one cooling with custom head gasket .
have you got the part number for the belt or even number of teeth +profile .
do you have any schematics of the system showing the check valves thermostat ect??
also can some one tell be the pipe above the headers is that to or from the heater ?
did you notice the head cooler than it was befor ?
have you had it in 40 C traffic ?
I am definatly going to do it seems you can get away with not alot of pump .
i think i will use 2 turbo coolant pumps .one circulate and one cooling with custom head gasket .
have you got the part number for the belt or even number of teeth +profile .
do you have any schematics of the system showing the check valves thermostat ect??
also can some one tell be the pipe above the headers is that to or from the heater ?
11-19-2007, 04:20 AM
#13
Drifting
Join Date: May 2006
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yikes i thought he said 55 gph and i was referring to the electric one being 4 liters per hr around 55 gph but yes it does say 55 per minute so it can displace the coolant system 20 or more times per minute i'm sure thats over kill I'll look up the flow of the davies craig EWP but its 55gph completely unrestricted.
11-19-2007, 02:39 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
That's correct on the 92+ Vettes having reverse flow cooling. The pump is a Meziere 55gpm dual port billet aluminum model with a two year warranty.
http://www.racepartsolutions.com/pro...R-WP337&cat=66
Good idea on the auto shut-off for the engine. That's what I was going to install if I was going to keep the car.
I think a digital oil pressure gauge with the "oil" word blacked out would be great on a gauge pod reading the cooling system pressure. I had a fuel pressure gauge on there for a while and it was showing 10-15 psi depending on the temperature. An infrared temp gauge is good for measuring various temps around the engine to check for hot spots with the laser sighter.
I have three different valves controlling various flow rates. One for the main line, I call it, one for the turbo and one for the pre-heat before the thermostat opens up. I hope a Rennlister buys this car so this system can be reproduced and sold as a kit.
30mpg should not be surprising since a stock 951 gets close to that on the highway already, if you stay off the turbo. I have the hoses routed to the head so they are in an upside-down T shape where the pre-heat valve, set at a lower pressure than the main line pressure, is flowing water at the closed thermostat (which is blocking it's flow), and in turn flows water to the head until the thermostat opens. When the thermostat opens from the main line pressure pushing on the other side of it, the main line pressure overcomes the pre-heat pressure and closes a flapper-type check valve so there is now only the radiator-cooled coolant flowing into the head. Huh?
There's probably many other ways it could be done, but it works like this fine. I've experimented with different flow rates for the main line so the coolant doesn't flow too fast through the radiator before it has a chance to cool off.
The timing belt is a 113 tooth (I think stock is a 119 tooth?)for a 90-97 Honda Accord with a 2.2l 16 valve 4 cyl. engine. Toda Racing used to advertise a 250,000 mile belt but now calls it something else and Gates makes some as well as some others. A timing chain was mounted on here but I took it off since the belt was strong enough, quieter and less moving mass/drag.
http://www.racepartsolutions.com/pro...R-WP337&cat=66
Good idea on the auto shut-off for the engine. That's what I was going to install if I was going to keep the car.
I think a digital oil pressure gauge with the "oil" word blacked out would be great on a gauge pod reading the cooling system pressure. I had a fuel pressure gauge on there for a while and it was showing 10-15 psi depending on the temperature. An infrared temp gauge is good for measuring various temps around the engine to check for hot spots with the laser sighter.
I have three different valves controlling various flow rates. One for the main line, I call it, one for the turbo and one for the pre-heat before the thermostat opens up. I hope a Rennlister buys this car so this system can be reproduced and sold as a kit.
30mpg should not be surprising since a stock 951 gets close to that on the highway already, if you stay off the turbo. I have the hoses routed to the head so they are in an upside-down T shape where the pre-heat valve, set at a lower pressure than the main line pressure, is flowing water at the closed thermostat (which is blocking it's flow), and in turn flows water to the head until the thermostat opens. When the thermostat opens from the main line pressure pushing on the other side of it, the main line pressure overcomes the pre-heat pressure and closes a flapper-type check valve so there is now only the radiator-cooled coolant flowing into the head. Huh?
There's probably many other ways it could be done, but it works like this fine. I've experimented with different flow rates for the main line so the coolant doesn't flow too fast through the radiator before it has a chance to cool off.
The timing belt is a 113 tooth (I think stock is a 119 tooth?)for a 90-97 Honda Accord with a 2.2l 16 valve 4 cyl. engine. Toda Racing used to advertise a 250,000 mile belt but now calls it something else and Gates makes some as well as some others. A timing chain was mounted on here but I took it off since the belt was strong enough, quieter and less moving mass/drag.