SimonK

Allot of these issues boil down to the driver. Some are heavy on the brakes some are not. It all depends on the driving style. I used to race cars (not my 951S though) but I now mainly race motorbikes. At the beginning it was mostly; hot in, hard on the brakes and slow out… Now it’s slower in and hotter out – it seems to do wonders for the brakes and the lap-times.

Brake size only helps in cooling - fade. Every motorbike is capable of flipping you over under hard braking. And in our cars especially if fitted with ABS will either lock front wheels under heavy braking or cause a skid unless on slicks and extremely coarse surface.

So, big brakes upgrade summary; great looks, running cooler, do nothing to stop the car quicker unless stock items overcooked and are heavier.

pole position

The GT3 weights a little over 3000 and the GT2 is about 150 pounds heavier. I trust Porsche a little bit more than a net board when it comes to engineering concepts in brake technology. Brakes ARE NEVER overkill. They put the big blacks on the 968 turbo with a measily low 300 hp..........and stepped right up to 6 pistons when it came to 400 plus in more weekend track oriented cars like the GT3/2 and the difference is night and day especially with the ceramics. Same goes with this silly 16 inch wheel argument and again , I wonder why they did not race the 968TRS with 16 's when they are so superior ? Maybe they wanted to be competitve and take advantage of better tire technology ? And the 968TRS was used in way more serious competition than some club race in the middle of nowhere.

Suggestion : drive a GT/2 with either steel or ceramics (I prefer ceramics) or a Carr GT and you will realize that their braking is simple mindboggling. Technology goes forward not backwards and hinting that stuff designed /used 20 years ago is on par or superior than new tech is borderline ignorant.

kasturbo

Thanks Pool for your insight and for stating the obvious. At what point any where in this thread did I or anyone else state that the newer technology in not better? Who would argue that? Didn't think so. I said that it was a stupid, overkill upgrade considering the cost and difficulty mounting these to an S car.

If you would reread the first post you would see that cost is a factor for this poster. Here I'll help, so you don't have to go back. Patrick said, ".."OOHHH, Big Reds!!!" v's "Hmm Blacks are ok" So is it merely that because they're more expensive by quite some difference and they're red, that we tend to choose these over the Blacks? Also what sort of costs are out there and is buying 2nd hand a worthwhile option?" <-----right there is the key words. Please read again, WORTHWHILE OPTION. I'm sorry that you didn't pick this up in the first place.

Now that you got that clear, if you would like to give me 25k to throw at my 5k car for your ceramic brake upgrade, with 18" lightweights and track tires, I would be happy to test them. Better yet, let me barrow that cgt of yours and I'll be happy to tell you that the brakes are better then my 20 year option that was priced right for me. I hope you understand what I'm getting at here as I do have a tendency to step down to the level borderline ignorant people from time to time......

Sorry for the OT.

RKD in OKC

For and S, get the big blacks for ease of fitment and paint them RED.

Don't forget to upgrade the rear brake bias valve.

333pg333

This option is currently the front runner although not sure that by painting them red will make me go any faster contrary to popular opinion. lol
If someone could present me with a kit to go Monoblocks I would seriously consider them because as we all agree they are later tech item. My issue is time. I haven't got the time to get them here and someone fit them satisfactorily before our first event. By the way, has anyone done anything about dual adj. master cylinders (excluding all out race cars)? I should replace my master anyway as it could be original for all I know.

RolexNJ

My 2 cents Patrick if I can help with your thread. First, Rich has it right regarding the differences, so kudos to him. Honestly, Big Red was more of a marketing initiative that was part of Porsche's strategy; and it worked over the years. So that's pure marketing. Anyway, I know the application that you are using your car pal. For you, I would look into either flavor, get the proper brake fluid, SS brakes lines, brake ducting, and those pads you love. And you are ready to go hard! Also, I don't know of anyone who has bought rebuilt ones, so I can't personally comment on that, sorry.

In addition, I don't know of a single person who has ever complained about Big Reds or Blacks not being effective enough for doing DEs or short sprints in 944Ts, never. Hell mate, you tell us? You went for a ride with that Pro driver with your car, and it has S brakes, right? Did he "cook" the brakes when he was getting on the car at 100% on the track? I don't ever recall you saying that he did that or had severe brake issues; and this isn't even a Big Red/Black upgrade too, right? Personally, I think that this upgrade is more than adequate for well over 90% of the people who have our cars for street use. And even on the track, I've been with people running BR with either Pagid Black or Orange pads, and we never had brake issues. I think this is your best brake upgrade for the money. Now, do you "need" to get a 6 piston set-up or go to ceramic set-up? That's up to you. But do you really need them? In my opinion, no. Would it be nice to have? Hell yes! Just like with all of us, do we "need" to have a car that makes more than 400 RWHP? No. Most people haven't pushed the limits of a car on a track that makes 300 BHP, let alone a monster putting down 400 RWHP. Lets not forget too Special Tool with his 500 RWHP+ car, yikes! But also as SimonK stated, a lot plays into it is your driving style too. As a racer, one thing you need to constantly do is to monitor and preserve your equipment for the duration of a short race, let alone if it's an endurance one. I know people who are blistering fast when it comes to setting the fastest lap or qualifying, but, is there gear going to last? Will they have a DNF due to mechanical failures? Some might. My point is, your driving style will play a role on how well your brakes last too. Anyway my friend, you can't go wrong with getting either flavor. I hope this helped you a bit?




EDIT: Olli, that set-up that you're doing is sweet! But do I need them? Humm, no! But I sure might get me a set! I'll let you know!

ibkevin

Bingo!

For those who do not have ABS, this will give you more bite per brake and help avoid flat spotting tires.

Next time you do any brake work, add SS lines, ATE fluid, a 33/5 valve, and learn how to put your foot into them!

333pg333

Thanks Rob, see above. I am convinced that the Blacks are in fact a better option than the Reds and agree with you that for most purposes they are easily good enough.

RolexNJ

I got it and you're welcome mate.

nick_968

Big blacks also allow use of the 968 M030 metal brake line sections as they mount in the standard position with no adjustments to fittings, which should give better feel and promote cooling. I have no complaints with my big black setup, but havent got round to the metal lines just yet.

333pg333

Nick is this the sort of thing you're referring to? Woops edit. Late nite didn't read your post properly, but are these of use to us anyway?
http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racers...enumodelbytype

Duke

You can also get factory Audi RS2 calipers. They are "big reds" but with "big blacks" style fittings for fluids etc.

In other words completely bolt on with no mods whatsoever. And yes, they come with the Porsche script

333pg333

Duke what are the advantages of the RS2 calipers over the Porsche 'Big' options?

Duke

Well, none since they are the same (just comes from the factory with the nipples in the right place for our cars).

But it's good to know all working options
In fact my calipers are Audi sourced.

333pg333

Any cheaper?