To o-ring or not to o-ring the head? :)
#47
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
Yeah but, increased cylinder pressure will require more clamping force to keep the head on the block. Fiber type gaskets don't work nearly as well as metal gaskets at maintaining clamping force. More hp and more boost is going to require more clamping force. ST may have gotten away with it for awhile (I'm still surprised) but, recently he's had trouble with head lifting so I wouldn't exactly take that example to mean you can run 30psi on stock studs and a stock/widefire HG with a good tune. Hell, in other car circles, most people don't tend to use fiber HG's over 300-350whp as it's just a waste of time when a metal headgasket will work better and be safer. In fact, this is the only group where I've ever even seen people talk about, think about, and even attempt to run fiber gaskets over 450whp.
There's a reason a large amount of car manufacturers (including Porsche as previously mentioned) have moved to metal gaskets on stock production cars.
Todd, I believe there was someone here that posted about blowing an MLS gasket (could have been another forum though). It's definitely possible. Serious detonation can blow holes through pistons and it can certainly damage MLS gaskets. MLS gaskets are much more resistant to detonation and other factors though, so they are less likely to be damaged than a fiber/oem/widefire gasket will. The whole "fuse" method is kind of an urban myth or misconception. That's kind of like using a weak clutch so that you don't put down too much power and break the axles.
It's just not the right way to go about it. If someone blows an MLS headgasket, I'd be willing to bet that it was a result of horrible detonation, in which case anything in and around the combustion chamber would be prone to destruction.
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Todd, I believe there was someone here that posted about blowing an MLS gasket (could have been another forum though). It's definitely possible. Serious detonation can blow holes through pistons and it can certainly damage MLS gaskets. MLS gaskets are much more resistant to detonation and other factors though, so they are less likely to be damaged than a fiber/oem/widefire gasket will. The whole "fuse" method is kind of an urban myth or misconception. That's kind of like using a weak clutch so that you don't put down too much power and break the axles.
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Yea, I am pretty set on going MLS and new head bolts/studs.
So you can o ring the head and run a MLS gasket???
Recomendations on studs/bolts?
#48
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Bill: What turbo/injectors/engine management are you using?
Originally Posted by Bill
For the past year and a half, My boost has been set at 22 psi. I use a wide fire head gasket with O-rings in the head. The O-rings, a five angle valve job and some port work were done at Lindsey Racing.
#49
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Originally Posted by toddk911
Ok, gotcha.
Yea, I am pretty set on going MLS and new head bolts/studs.
So you can o ring the head and run a MLS gasket???
Recomendations on studs/bolts?
Yea, I am pretty set on going MLS and new head bolts/studs.
So you can o ring the head and run a MLS gasket???
Recomendations on studs/bolts?
#50
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Would having the head set-up for o-rings, not installing them, and running an MLS head gasket make the engine more prone to leaks? Just curious if it's not a bad idea to at least set up your car for o-rings, even if you aren't currently using them.
-Darwin
-Darwin
#51
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Originally Posted by Bonestock951S
Would having the head set-up for o-rings, not installing them, and running an MLS head gasket make the engine more prone to leaks? Just curious if it's not a bad idea to at least set up your car for o-rings, even if you aren't currently using them.
-Darwin
-Darwin
No - you may do that. I have, of course, or I would not comment.
#52
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So, what is the next most likely thing to break under pre-detonation if you have an o-ringed head, race fasteners, race rods, and thermal coated pistons...
1. Deformed wrist pins.
2. Stretched girdle.
3. Both
1. Deformed wrist pins.
2. Stretched girdle.
3. Both
#53
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Originally Posted by RKD in OKC
So, what is the next most likely thing to break under pre-detonation if you have an o-ringed head, race fasteners, race rods, and thermal coated pistons...
1. Deformed wrist pins.
2. Stretched girdle.
3. Both
1. Deformed wrist pins.
2. Stretched girdle.
3. Both
The rods will bend - SLIGHLY.
See my last post for verification.
#54
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Are these stock rods though? What about say, Arrow steel for example?
#56
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So anybody had experience with both o-ringing the head and the block. Or both separately? My block's o-ringed. But I've never had experience with an o-ringed head. Is one better than the other? Is it possible to do both?
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Originally Posted by clouddomino
So anybody had experience with both o-ringing the head and the block. Or both separately? My block's o-ringed. But I've never had experience with an o-ringed head. Is one better than the other? Is it possible to do both?
#59
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
I wouldn't o-ring the head but, that's just me. I'd definitely go with ARP or Raceware head studs.
Is there any difference in ARP vs. Raceware???
#60
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Todd, only big difference for me, the reason I chose ARP, was they went in with Loctite and you left them torqued on the second sequence overnight used a stock headgasket) - thus not having to re-torque after the first heat cycle. Raceware recommends a re-torque, some do and some don't. IRC, I think their respective toque values are very close to each other.