Found this on another forum. Thought I'd share it here. Looks interesting. Maybe I'll try it when I get a turbo car again .


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/e...8600ccfc68.htm

 

This looks like a good system, certainly I can see the benefits of losing diaphragms. Plus the flexibilty of starting with the 38mm and being able to upgrade to the 50mm by just buying a casting. Has anybody fgitted one of these? Could make the Tials obsolete!!

 

certainly seems like a sound design, suspect cost may be high. Looking at company site they do wastegates, bov, fpr. However only show a few retailers. I am not interested enough to call, but curious enough to wonder about cost. If anybody wants to call for pricing - here is link to retailers

http://www.synapseengineering.com/ar...tributors.html

 

So...

Is there some diaphragm failure problem or boost accuracy problem or gaulding problem with our wastegates that is not related to age I don't know about?

I work at a company that manufactures oil field valves and controls. The applications where we use pistons is only where the pressure is too great for a diaphragm. AND that is above 250 psi!

I do see a downside as the orings are not going to last as long as a diaphragm. Some questions...

Do you have a billet BOV? Have taken it apart to clean and lubricate it? Did you know you even need to? How long did the stock diaphragm BOV operate before it needed service/replacement? Is your wastegate as easy to access as the BOV to perform cleaning/maintenance?

It's not that I don't think these things are cool, I just don't see advantages worth the extra cost. In most cases the boost controller is going to have a much larger impact on boost accuracy than a piston versus diaphram wastegate, especially if it is dual port.

 

I like my boost controller. I'll stick with my Tial

 

I watched the video. Their arguments against typical diaphraghm wastegates are largely a matter of semantics. Their design is an interesting one, and maybe it is "better" but AFAIK it hasn't been proven. Though, good quality diaphragm wastegates like Tial's have been proven through motorsports for years, and have more than proven their reliability. In short, Tial wg's work just fine so there isn't any reason to upgrade.

 

What would be the benefits? More accurate?

 

To win the Sema award it must have been rigorously tested. The standard wastegate with dual port conversion works just fine too but its the strive forward hence a lot of peopl euse the Tial. I disagree with your findings regarding "Their arguments against typical diaphraghm wastegates are largely a matter of semantics." I conclude it is a matter of engineering and precise tolerances as well as flexibility, but that is just my opinion
Its fine on earth but that doesn't mean man does not want to walk on the moon??
Until somebody tries one of these on a 951 nobody will really know if there is a reason to upgrade

Cheers
Tom

 

Piston actuation is accurate within 0.5% versus 2% with diaphragm actuation. At a maximum boost of 20 psi that is .1 psi versus .4 psi.

This is due to the increased stiffness (friction of the orings) of the pistion. The other benefit to this stiffness is the piston actuation is less sensitive to buffeting in flow.

Again, this comparison is for higher pressure, long stroke applications where the actuating pressure (pressure that operates the valve) is above 150 psi.

 

for it's bling value.

 

Tommo, I'm not saying it's not an improved design. It sounds like it is, though I'll remain skeptical as to how much so until it sees some actual testing on vehicles. The guy kept saying how horrible a diaphgram wastegate is for a race car, which is laughable at best. There is plenty of high boost, high horsepower stuff out there using Tial's including race cars and they tend to work just fine. It's one thing to make a better product, but it's another thing entirely to try and sell your product by making ridiculous claims about a competitor's products being inferior. The guy didn't give much info on how this new diapraghm-less design functions. Looks to me like it is little more than a wastegate with a valve guide and some different sized housings for reasons of convenience. I don't know, personally, when I hear someone say that "So and so's products are inferior, look at our revolutionary technology!" I want some actual proof or evidence to back it up.

 

The improved precision in valve actuation is clear. Although nifty, in itself has little necesity. Certainly wastegate valve actuation is not more important/complex than cylinder head valve actuation, yet valve guide technology remains the standard.

The real question is the difference in elimination of diaphram. It seems logical that longevity and acuracy COULD be improved without diaphram.

EDIT: - finish typing

That said - I will await somebody to give it a try. GUNS, I think you should by this and let us all know how it works

 

Has anybody obtained a price yet??

 

I like the dual spring setup and the non metallic guide bearing (although he never said it was non wearing) The ability to adjust the rising rate independantly of the preload should be this products largest selling point.

 

I'm curious what the likes of John and Chris White feel.