Ceramic Composite Brake Information
01-04-2007, 09:25 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by 951and944S
Erm, no.....I don't.
Care adressing the fact that factory S4 brakes can activate abs on race slicks or that non-abs cars can lock the wheels on track tires at 9-10 inch front widths with race Toyos or Hoosiers at the end of a 90 minute enduro...?
The point to your quip is exactly what...., that larger brakes are going to mysteriously improve the limiting factor of tire adhesion....?
TS
Care adressing the fact that factory S4 brakes can activate abs on race slicks or that non-abs cars can lock the wheels on track tires at 9-10 inch front widths with race Toyos or Hoosiers at the end of a 90 minute enduro...?
The point to your quip is exactly what...., that larger brakes are going to mysteriously improve the limiting factor of tire adhesion....?
TS
The key thing you are looking for is a better modulation and the ability to safely approach the adhesion limit of the tires.
So – the point of my quip is that all other things being equal (cooling and pad selection) the larger pads/rotors will be able to produce better results (modulation/feel) than smaller brakes. For those of use that are not limited my rules but by budget the larger brakes last a lot longer due to less thermal stress. I can get a full season from the 993t rotors and 10 days from good pads. I sued to get 3 days form top notch 951 pads…
BTW – S4’s and big reds are pretty similar – for those that don’t have stock S4 calipers it is cheaper to go to big reds – by as much as $100 a caliper.
01-04-2007, 02:14 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
When I saw that GT3 Supercup teams switched back to cast iron rotors from ceramics, it underlined the bang for the buck factor.
There is a difference (a very big) between the PCCB you used and teh one that used in supercup.
The one we use in Supercup last as much as 10 sets of the steel one.
we change every weekend the steel rotors but we change the PCCB every 10 weekends
There is NOT A SINGLE Supercup team changed back from PCCB to steel one in the last 2 years. I bet my 968 Turbo S on that. There are many reasons why. I do not know where did you get these wrong infos but before you do give such infos please double check or ask someone who knows more about it.
The braking between the race PCCB with the Porsche race pads and the steels rotors is night and day.
The race PCCB is not for everyone and Porsche use it only in supercup. Since most peole do not know how to use it Poirsche do not sell it to teh USA or other markets.
yes it cost 3 times more but last 10 times longer, you have a better handling and brakes much better.
the PCCB1 with the street pads was NOT suitable for racing.
The PCCB2 with the right pads is a dream.
If you can afford to buy the supercup system (brakes rotos pads etc) you will never get back
There is only one brake system that is even better than the Porsche PCCB for teh supercup.
the one that we use in GT1 cars in ALMS It is lighter and better but absolute not usable for the street. The Porsche one can be used easy on the street.
Konstantin
PS There was a reason why the PCCB 1 had problems on the track but that was not because of the rotors
01-12-2007, 01:12 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Konstantin
There is a difference (a very big) between the PCCB you used and teh one that used in supercup.
The one we use in Supercup last as much as 10 sets of the steel one.
we change every weekend the steel rotors but we change the PCCB every 10 weekends
There is NOT A SINGLE Supercup team changed back from PCCB to steel one in the last 2 years. I bet my 968 Turbo S on that. There are many reasons why. I do not know where did you get these wrong infos but before you do give such infos please double check or ask someone who knows more about it.
The braking between the race PCCB with the Porsche race pads and the steels rotors is night and day.
The race PCCB is not for everyone and Porsche use it only in supercup. Since most peole do not know how to use it Poirsche do not sell it to teh USA or other markets.
yes it cost 3 times more but last 10 times longer, you have a better handling and brakes much better.
the PCCB1 with the street pads was NOT suitable for racing.
The PCCB2 with the right pads is a dream.
If you can afford to buy the supercup system (brakes rotos pads etc) you will never get back
There is only one brake system that is even better than the Porsche PCCB for teh supercup.
the one that we use in GT1 cars in ALMS It is lighter and better but absolute not usable for the street. The Porsche one can be used easy on the street.
PS There was a reason why the PCCB 1 had problems on the track but that was not because of the rotors
The one we use in Supercup last as much as 10 sets of the steel one.
we change every weekend the steel rotors but we change the PCCB every 10 weekends
There is NOT A SINGLE Supercup team changed back from PCCB to steel one in the last 2 years. I bet my 968 Turbo S on that. There are many reasons why. I do not know where did you get these wrong infos but before you do give such infos please double check or ask someone who knows more about it.
The braking between the race PCCB with the Porsche race pads and the steels rotors is night and day.
The race PCCB is not for everyone and Porsche use it only in supercup. Since most peole do not know how to use it Poirsche do not sell it to teh USA or other markets.
yes it cost 3 times more but last 10 times longer, you have a better handling and brakes much better.
the PCCB1 with the street pads was NOT suitable for racing.
The PCCB2 with the right pads is a dream.
If you can afford to buy the supercup system (brakes rotos pads etc) you will never get back
There is only one brake system that is even better than the Porsche PCCB for teh supercup.
the one that we use in GT1 cars in ALMS It is lighter and better but absolute not usable for the street. The Porsche one can be used easy on the street.
PS There was a reason why the PCCB 1 had problems on the track but that was not because of the rotors
1. Are the pads you refer to the Porsche Motorsport 'green' pads for pccbs? If so, I do think they are available here in the US.
2. The ALMS brakes, are those the Brembo GTRs here http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=10
If so, why are they terrible for the street?
3. Your PS, what was the problem with PCCB1 if not the rotors?
Thanks.
01-15-2007, 01:48 AM
#34
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I think Konstantin is referring to carbon-carbon rotors, which lasts and lasts and lasts, even on a modern day open wheel car. At $4K each, I thought they were expensive until I read what Porsche wants for their PCCS rotors
Trouble is, they need heat to work, so they'd suck on a street car. Cold, they have rock hard pedal but no friction until they are HOT. Bummer because I have a few sets that I would love to make hats for to fit on a p-car.
Trouble is, they need heat to work, so they'd suck on a street car. Cold, they have rock hard pedal but no friction until they are HOT. Bummer because I have a few sets that I would love to make hats for to fit on a p-car.
01-15-2007, 08:43 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by frayed
Konstantin,
1. Are the pads you refer to the Porsche Motorsport 'green' pads for pccbs? If so, I do think they are available here in the US.
2. The ALMS brakes, are those the Brembo GTRs here http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=10
If so, why are they terrible for the street?
3. Your PS, what was the problem with PCCB1 if not the rotors?
Thanks.
1. Are the pads you refer to the Porsche Motorsport 'green' pads for pccbs? If so, I do think they are available here in the US.
2. The ALMS brakes, are those the Brembo GTRs here http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=10
If so, why are they terrible for the street?
3. Your PS, what was the problem with PCCB1 if not the rotors?
Thanks.
2 no
3 think it is a braking SYSTEM that work as one piece not many pices that you put togethere. Thats why mixing components that are not testetd by a Pro race team or a brake manufacturer is not a good thinf and seldom work.
do you wanta a good barke system that work for street and track buy the supercup one either steel (with the racing rotors) or the PCCB race one.
Konstantin
01-15-2007, 08:46 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by chris walrod
I think Konstantin is referring to carbon-carbon rotors, which lasts and lasts and lasts, even on a modern day open wheel car. At $4K each, I thought they were expensive until I read what Porsche wants for their PCCS rotors
Trouble is, they need heat to work, so they'd suck on a street car. Cold, they have rock hard pedal but no friction until they are HOT. Bummer because I have a few sets that I would love to make hats for to fit on a p-car.
Trouble is, they need heat to work, so they'd suck on a street car. Cold, they have rock hard pedal but no friction until they are HOT. Bummer because I have a few sets that I would love to make hats for to fit on a p-car.
very nice on the track. Not good for Ed event very good for HARD driving.
Konstantin
sorry I have to leave now I am in Geramny and fly to Sebring and have very few time.
Konstantin
