Garrett Gt35r Install
12-07-2006, 01:04 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by evil 944t
I flowed them both in stock form, expect major cfm over an 8v head and minor between the two 16v heads.
You can not begin to believe what a ported head can flow. Its not even believable.
Good luck Travis, you have a great write up here.
You can not begin to believe what a ported head can flow. Its not even believable.
Good luck Travis, you have a great write up here.
Best wishes,
12-07-2006, 07:17 AM
#48
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What I would think being very usefull is to create a thread to interesting technical issues and copy all TECHNICAL info to one theme into this thread. This should be "administrator only" work. This finally created thread should be read only (like dyno charts in other forums).
Background is that often when it is about technical issues a lot of private off topic stuff get put into it too (like my post!) which is not helpful or getting anyone further. Also when searching the post for certain topics it could become a bit painful.
Filtered threads like these could be contained in a kind of engineering database that we could all start to grow especially for the 951. I definetely think that a GT turbo install is worth making a start. My point is that if we all start putting usefull information together we have massively more research resources that Porsche ever had to develop the 951.
If anyone ever feels like discussing about it, please do it in a new thread. I just thought of posting into this thread particularly because I think there are people reading this thread that might think the same.
The next time I post, it will contain techincal considerations! I promiss.
Background is that often when it is about technical issues a lot of private off topic stuff get put into it too (like my post!) which is not helpful or getting anyone further. Also when searching the post for certain topics it could become a bit painful.
Filtered threads like these could be contained in a kind of engineering database that we could all start to grow especially for the 951. I definetely think that a GT turbo install is worth making a start. My point is that if we all start putting usefull information together we have massively more research resources that Porsche ever had to develop the 951.
If anyone ever feels like discussing about it, please do it in a new thread. I just thought of posting into this thread particularly because I think there are people reading this thread that might think the same.
The next time I post, it will contain techincal considerations! I promiss.
12-07-2006, 07:21 AM
#49
I have been told and based on my experience, that the 16v heads flow TOOOOO much for the 944 engine block/design in turbo config.
Someday soon someone will be proving me right.......
And I am talking here about REAL power, not some 500 HP slug/anchor (representative of the year 1991).
Someday soon someone will be proving me right.......
And I am talking here about REAL power, not some 500 HP slug/anchor (representative of the year 1991).
12-07-2006, 07:32 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
Thanks Duke. If you don't mind my asking, what kind of turbo are you going with, and do you have a specific power goal in mind?
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only.
I'm using the exact same turbo, GT35R with 0.82 turbine.
I'm not that worried about turbo lag. Done hundreds and hundreds of engine simulations for this engine and power below 4000 rpm doesn't really bother me. I will rev to around 7000-7200 rpm so the powerband will be 3000 rpm which IMHO is enough for a streetable and nice engine.
I'm going to have a 4-1 header design custom built for me with my personal specs for design and tubing sizes. Same goes for intake etc.
However I will start out with hyd. lifters so that will be a limiting factor.
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Not that you would want to use it with a turbo like this, but it's good to know that it can be done if you want to do before and after dynos.
Using the systems-approach you can really take advantage of a turbo like this if you consider every other part in the engine.
With a low backpressure turbo like this you can use an aggressive cam with overlap and high boost levels with much lower risk for detonation than a regular rennlist bolt-on engine.
This community seems pretty much stuck in the 330-400 rwhp range depending on boost levels. I'm hoping this will change a lot in the next year
12-07-2006, 07:39 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Duke
I'm really not that keen on giving out all info, but what the heck...
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only.
I'm using the exact same turbo, GT35R with 0.82 turbine.
I'm not that worried about turbo lag. Done hundreds and hundreds of engine simulations for this engine and power below 4000 rpm doesn't really bother me. I will rev to around 7000-7200 rpm so the powerband will be 3000 rpm which IMHO is enough for a streetable and nice engine.
I'm going to have a 4-1 header design custom built for me with my personal specs for design and tubing sizes. Same goes for intake etc.
However I will start out with hyd. lifters so that will be a limiting factor.
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Not that you would want to use it with a turbo like this, but it's good to know that it can be done if you want to do before and after dynos.
Using the systems-approach you can really take advantage of a turbo like this if you consider every other part in the engine.
With a low backpressure turbo like this you can use an aggressive cam with overlap and high boost levels with much lower risk for detonation than a regular rennlist bolt-on engine.
This community seems pretty much stuck in the 330-400 rwhp range depending on boost levels. I'm hoping this will change a lot in the next year
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only.
I'm using the exact same turbo, GT35R with 0.82 turbine.
I'm not that worried about turbo lag. Done hundreds and hundreds of engine simulations for this engine and power below 4000 rpm doesn't really bother me. I will rev to around 7000-7200 rpm so the powerband will be 3000 rpm which IMHO is enough for a streetable and nice engine.
I'm going to have a 4-1 header design custom built for me with my personal specs for design and tubing sizes. Same goes for intake etc.
However I will start out with hyd. lifters so that will be a limiting factor.
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Not that you would want to use it with a turbo like this, but it's good to know that it can be done if you want to do before and after dynos.
Using the systems-approach you can really take advantage of a turbo like this if you consider every other part in the engine.
With a low backpressure turbo like this you can use an aggressive cam with overlap and high boost levels with much lower risk for detonation than a regular rennlist bolt-on engine.
This community seems pretty much stuck in the 330-400 rwhp range depending on boost levels. I'm hoping this will change a lot in the next year
12-07-2006, 07:40 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by evil 944t
I flowed them both in stock form, expect major cfm over an 8v head and minor between the two 16v heads.
You can not begin to believe what a ported head can flow. Its not even believable.
Good luck Travis, you have a great write up here.
You can not begin to believe what a ported head can flow. Its not even believable.
Good luck Travis, you have a great write up here.
Oh and where's your website?
Patrick
12-07-2006, 08:05 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by Duke
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Rogue
12-07-2006, 08:09 AM
#55
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Great thread. I have had GT30R in my last enigne.. I had max boost aorund 3300 rpm and I had it up to 1.8 BAR. Great thing with BB turbos is that when they start to spool, everything will happen really quickly.. I managed to clock 9,5 second run from 100-200kmh 2 people in the car..
As far as going with multiple valves I have choosed to go with 968 enigne and variocam with upgraded webcam camshafts. Allthough I will use stock headers in the beginning! I think I will make plenty of power with those! SFR headers are more for top hp instead of torque. As far as choice of turbo GT35R 0,82 seems to be popular among 3.0 liter projects so this would be my first choice.. But I will test out my GT30R with with ITS 0,9AR turbine housing in the beginning. It should be really fast spooler with great top end power... I think with 968 head and 3.0 liter 500+hp should not be a problem with very broad powerband.. In 2.5 liter 8 valve stock eninge I got 402hp with it.. thats with stock intercooler piping etc. Ive seen 1.8T 20valve VW engine producing massive 552hp with same turbo. and thats just simply because of really effective head and high revving engine!
Good to know that there will be plenty of intresting projects starting here and the other side of ocean!
markus
As far as going with multiple valves I have choosed to go with 968 enigne and variocam with upgraded webcam camshafts. Allthough I will use stock headers in the beginning! I think I will make plenty of power with those! SFR headers are more for top hp instead of torque. As far as choice of turbo GT35R 0,82 seems to be popular among 3.0 liter projects so this would be my first choice.. But I will test out my GT30R with with ITS 0,9AR turbine housing in the beginning. It should be really fast spooler with great top end power... I think with 968 head and 3.0 liter 500+hp should not be a problem with very broad powerband.. In 2.5 liter 8 valve stock eninge I got 402hp with it.. thats with stock intercooler piping etc. Ive seen 1.8T 20valve VW engine producing massive 552hp with same turbo. and thats just simply because of really effective head and high revving engine!
Good to know that there will be plenty of intresting projects starting here and the other side of ocean!
markus
I'm really not that keen on giving out all info, but what the heck...
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only.
I'm using the exact same turbo, GT35R with 0.82 turbine.
I'm not that worried about turbo lag. Done hundreds and hundreds of engine simulations for this engine and power below 4000 rpm doesn't really bother me. I will rev to around 7000-7200 rpm so the powerband will be 3000 rpm which IMHO is enough for a streetable and nice engine.
I'm going to have a 4-1 header design custom built for me with my personal specs for design and tubing sizes. Same goes for intake etc.
However I will start out with hyd. lifters so that will be a limiting factor.
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Not that you would want to use it with a turbo like this, but it's good to know that it can be done if you want to do before and after dynos.
Using the systems-approach you can really take advantage of a turbo like this if you consider every other part in the engine.
With a low backpressure turbo like this you can use an aggressive cam with overlap and high boost levels with much lower risk for detonation than a regular rennlist bolt-on engine.
This community seems pretty much stuck in the 330-400 rwhp range depending on boost levels. I'm hoping this will change a lot in the next year
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only.
I'm using the exact same turbo, GT35R with 0.82 turbine.
I'm not that worried about turbo lag. Done hundreds and hundreds of engine simulations for this engine and power below 4000 rpm doesn't really bother me. I will rev to around 7000-7200 rpm so the powerband will be 3000 rpm which IMHO is enough for a streetable and nice engine.
I'm going to have a 4-1 header design custom built for me with my personal specs for design and tubing sizes. Same goes for intake etc.
However I will start out with hyd. lifters so that will be a limiting factor.
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Not that you would want to use it with a turbo like this, but it's good to know that it can be done if you want to do before and after dynos.
Using the systems-approach you can really take advantage of a turbo like this if you consider every other part in the engine.
With a low backpressure turbo like this you can use an aggressive cam with overlap and high boost levels with much lower risk for detonation than a regular rennlist bolt-on engine.
This community seems pretty much stuck in the 330-400 rwhp range depending on boost levels. I'm hoping this will change a lot in the next year
12-07-2006, 08:20 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
The first thing I should mention is that because I am keeping my a/c system and since I purchased the turbo with the optional T04S housing, there is probably going to be a fitment issue with the stock intake manifold. I will update you all on potential fitment issues of components such as this.
Regards.
Raj
12-07-2006, 08:47 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by Duke
The good thing about fitting a GT35 is that it's big enough to sit on the engine mount (using the ATP-adapter) without touching the mount itself. So no need for grinding. This also means that the turbo sits low enough to fit under the stock intake manifold!
Q: which ATP-adapter are you using?
12-07-2006, 09:37 AM
#58
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I have heard that on the intake side there are not major gains in porting the head but on the exhaust side you can get major gains.
True?
True?
12-07-2006, 10:08 AM
#59
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"I'm really not that keen on giving out all info, but what the heck...
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only. <------------------------- AWESOME!!!
It's cool to know what the motor is totally capable of in running non pump, but I really like to know what the car can do in a everyday state of tune on pump.
My original goal was 600+ bhp but that have changed since I lost a few parts to a missing engine builder.
Now my goal is lowered to 500+ bhp.
Oh, this is pump gas only. <------------------------- AWESOME!!!
It's cool to know what the motor is totally capable of in running non pump, but I really like to know what the car can do in a everyday state of tune on pump.
