Porschefile

Just FYI, but Speed Force Racing already makes all the adapter components to install a GT series turbo on our cars (x-over, oil lines, downpipe, etc). It adds up a bit, though it's really not that bad considering the quality you get. I'm going to be sourcing a 3582r from them very soon.

Corleone

Alright... then I have the stage 8... at least...

Duke

Yes indeed! You just gained 10 mph trap speed

Fishey

You are wrong...



Stage (OMG NO TURBO FTW!) .......

Tms951

There are not enough VR turbos out there to make this comparison. Say VR has sold 100 turbos and only one has ever failed. And Garrett has sold 10,000 GTBB turbos and 100 have had failures they are still equal in terms of reliability, 1 in a 100.

Another point is that John recommends no more than 15psi while most Garrett gtbb turbo owners are running 25+psi going all the up to 40psi. So turbos running at 40psi are going to fail more often than turbos run at 15psi if they are of equal reliability.

You are not going to get much response about the Under pressure turbos on here because most of Scotts customers are racers and don't post on here, along the same lines I am interested how many racers choose to run VR turbos instead of a Garrett, turbonetics, or 951 racing company (JME, Under Pressure, Broad foot, and the like) turbo.

My point is look past turbos that are designed as bolt ns for this model car, they are good for the lightly modded car, but you have invested so much that you should get a top notch custom turbo, or go with one of the GTbb turbos. Lindsey makes exhaust parts to install a T4, I have these parts and they work great. SFR as we all know makes these parts as well and also for the gt series (t3). so at this point your choices are unlimited. I would suggest getting a full exhaust (exhaust ports all the way to the tip) from SFR set up for a t4, then call turbonetics or innovative (SFR is a dealer for both) and get a custom tailored turbo made for you, or if you want something really special give Scott a call. Just get away from the kkk replica hot sides they are holding you back in many ways.

SoloRacer

The turbo on the 968 Motec is shot and I in an e-mail I got from Jon Milledge he said that he spec'd out the turbo for that car. So I am going to contact him about getting it rebuilt or replaced. He's been good to deal with via e-mail so far.

333pg333

I agree with Tms951, but if you go and choose eg GT bb turbo and even get all the hardware to attach to our cars, what do you do in terms of controlling all this. Obviously we have to upgrade fuel pumps, pressure regs, injectors etc but what about chips, Maf/piggyb, or standalone? What do you suggest for an entire package?

fast951

I tried to stay away from this thread as much as possible. So much crap is going on it's not even funny. My post has nothing to do with JME (I do respect Jon and his work).

For some reason I got dragged into this, I will respond to some of the false statements made here regarding VR.

TMS951, Teo isn't it? You talk about VR as if you have lots of experience with and each component we make and sell. In reality, when the Wolf EMS (or whatever plug-and-play stand alone) you were using failed to deliver, you wanted a MAF chip to run the MAF sensor you provided. I provided you with software to manage all sort of mods done to the car. I also suggested you get the PB to fine tune it to your car, which you opted not to do. I provide you a good solution to a problem!
Funny, how your tone changed! Once you tried the software, , you were happy your car was running again. So where is all of this BS coming from? I care less who you get your products from. I care less who gives you discounts.. Talking junk about VR just makes your agenda very clear.

When you quote me, make sure you get it straight. I recommend 15psi MAX on pump gas. Many run more, but I'm not encouraging it. All it takes is 1 bad fill up, one bad fuel tank, and they will have no margin for safety and BOOOOM.

What the heck is happening to this list?????

Skip Wolfe

This is a good point about the world outside of Rennlist. Too many times, people limit their choices of vendors to thos that are active on the boards. While I am all for supporting Rennlist vendors, we need to keep in mind that there are many very qualified vendors that are not involved with this board. The high end vendors especially are not active because their target audience of guys willing to spend the money for their products is very small.

Lorax

"The world outside of rennlist"? Nonsense!

evil 944t

Your comparing apples to oranges.

VR turbos are not dbb turbos so how can you compare realiabilty?

The only way to compare any two turbos is to run them in the same enviroment, duration, same motor conditions, rpm, boost etc.. the list goes on.

Then you can make an accurate, scientific comparison.

You might only hear of a lot of failures depended on how many turbos are sold and or being used.

I think John has a great product and there is no trial and error on your part. If you don't want any hassle the go VR.

If you like working on your car and want to try out different turbos till you get it right, then buy a bunch of turbos and have fun.

Tms951

Fast951, I mean nothing against VR, I am just trying to make the point that people should broaden thier horizens. To me this forum is very narrow minded about turbos, they think yours are the only ones that are any good. While they are very good turbos i feel there strong points are that they are bolt on and that you sell very functional complete performance packages, you could take a stock car add your package and an exhaust and make huge gains. The least mods for most results is not the direction joe went in. I don't think I have ever stated you put out a bad product.

Yes I purchased a chip from you, it was a custom chip that I wanted to get my car started befor choosing and commiting to a stand alone, to your chips credit I ran the car at limerock on just the chip as well as dynoing it at about 360whp/wtq. both with out piggy back, with the piggy back I could have really dialed it in well. Regardless it ran great on the track. But I wanted some of the features that come with a full stand alone.

I will be the first to admit I have never touched one of your turbos. I have however made some statements about them, I gathered this information from this forum, which is with out a doubt the best place to learn about them. I have also made some assuptions, one being that you use of the shelf compresser wheels that are then modified oposed to having each one custon machined to match each engine set up. I feel I safely made this assuption because it would be crazy for you to do anything else. The turbos you offer are for a range of mods there would no point in having a turbo that is so specificly matched when customers cars very so much.

The fact remains that your turbos are expensive. Yes I have been pushing for Joe to look else where for a turbo. Why, well if he has invested 250K$ in his car I think he should continue to dump money into his car and if money is not an issue why not go with one of the turbos i sugested befor. Are you willing to say that your stage 5 turbo is a better turbo than anthing else out there? To me the UPP turbo seems like the best fit for Joe because it is that "only one in the world custom for me very special type of thing", not because I think he needs every little last bit to win a race like UPP customers.

The thing about 15 vs. 40 psi is a valid point, sure its 15psi on pump but lets be honest most of your customers are running 15psi 90% of the time. The point is that your turbos have an easy life compaired to a GTbb turbo on a drag car.

If I have made any comments about your product that is wrong let me know and I will edit those posts and publicly apologize.


333pg333, I was mostly just dicussing the turbo, but if I was to sugest a package to Joe it would be: Tec3r, SFR exhaust, intake and intercooler and a UPP turbo, and fueling (injectors, lines, pump, rail) to match the size tubo he picks. I really like my Lindsey intercooler but I don't think he would like the required nose panel.

fast951

TMS951, First I'm glad the custom chip worked for you! I would not say that anything I offer is the best out there, this will be a route to self destruction. I always like to push the limits, so I'm always trying to come up with a new products.

Of course there are other turbos out there, I never said that VR turbos are the only ones, I don't know of every part out there. I do know that the VR turbos work as advertised. Even if they are more expensive than other generic turbos (we do offer generic line of turbos as well), they are still the best bang for the $. Ask the people running them, not me. As to what I use or don't use in terms of parts, I'm sure you understand why I don't disclose this information.

Oh, and there are few racers using the VR products, if they want to post fine, I will not disclose thier information. The VR turbos have been tested over and over again, running on the track, and at over 24psi boost.

Like any mechanical part, turbos do fail.. We, at VR, use the best components we can find, we do lots of mods in order to provide good performance and reliability.

You saying that "Joe's car is out of my league" is a negative statement and a direct attack on VR. If you didn't mean the way I took it, then let's call it miscommunication. Isn't your car a 2.8L, with many mods? As you stated above, I was able to get you a good tune for it, so why any 951 would be out of my league. Since you already dynoed your car, perhaps you can compare the results to when you dyno it with the stand alone. Same boost, same gas, same dyno. (I assume you tried both pump & race maps?).

FYI, Joe emailed and posted here a desire to work with me. You know what? I didn't push hard to sell him any service or product, out of respect to PowerHaus. Joe's car is their baby, I would not step in and take over. Not so long ago, I took on a project to use my products on a famous 3L car. The owner was havving tuning, drivability issues. We delivered what we promised, and the car's owner was very happy with the results. The shop that originally worked on the car had a serious problem. (Even though I never said a word about it!).

We have tuned and specked turbos on many 3L cars, many are not on this board. I always try to discuss the customer goals, before I recommend a turbo or a part.

I said what I had to say. Back to scheduled programming.

RolexNJ

Since Joe is now more interested in making upgrades and mods to his car, versus the JME intake, I thought I would help by posting the list of mods Joe has on his car. This is from when he was going to raffle off his car. I have to "assume" that these are the same mods, and that nothing has been done. If I am wrong, then I am sure Joe will jump in and correct me. I just thought that by posting this web page, it will show "exactly" what he has on the car. This way everyone can make their suggestions and help Joe with this car, and perhaps make him once again "Defastest951". Although he just started a new thread and is now considering a new Vette? Joe, you confuse the hell out of me pal.



http://www.powerhaus.com/raffle/about.htm

Chris White

OK, since I have played with a couple of John/Vitesse’s turbos I will let the secret out of the bag – you guy want to know what they are made of? I know, I did a little research –
They are made up from iron, aluminum, some coppery bronze stuff and a some other shiny metals. That about covers it. I thought a saw a little eye of newt but I can be sure.

now you can stop worring about it