billthe3

When I recently bought my car I decided to go ahead and buy the set of front coil-overs the PO decided he wanted to sell. He was originally unsure if he was going to sell the kit or keep it to use on his 951S, but after a talk with his mechanic/dealer he decided to sell them.

http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/944arhk-r.htm
The coil-overs came with the helper springs, spanner tool, and a new set of koni yellows. The car currently has a set of koni yellows in the rear and I believe it is still stock struts up front. It has upgraded weltmiester sway bars in front and rear.

Basically I'm just wondering what the general consensus is about the kit - how much it changed handling and ride, etc. I'm sort of wondering why the previous owner would have decided to not install the kit on his 951S (to stiff of a ride for a non-track car?).

Also wondering how hard they are to install.

Anyway, any info would be appreciated.



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TheRealLefty

I know of one car with this kit installed, along with rebuilt, double adjustable Koni inserts, and it is a very strong runner! This set-up is really a great way to replicate the 951S front coil-over spec and allow the use of a wider range of 2.5" diameter springs. How much it effects the ride quality and handling on any given 944/951 is a function of the spring rates chosen and the shock/ride height adjustment. You can choose most anything from mild to wild. What spring rates are on the set you're considering?

special tool

They are great. Got them on my 924S track car with 375 Hypercoil.

Trucho-951

What is the spring rate? If it is higher than 200 lbs/in., the car will also need stiffer rear torsion bars to balance out the suspension. A stock 86' 951 already understeers heavily, going with stiffer front springs and NOT upgrading the rear torsion bars will only make the understeer worse.

M758

I have run them on my 944 spec race car for 4 years.

500

The modification is really easy, using the good write up that Paragon has HERE

Just take your time in cutting the bodies to the right length (I used a large tubing cutter, the best way to go).

The helper springs are a nice option as well (otherwise you just have to wire the spring onto the upper perch). This is how the whole ensemble looks (minus the snubbers, which I did not have on when I took this test assembly pic):

Skip Wolfe

I've used them for the past 3 years on a 951 that see about 90% track duty and have been very happy with them. I wouldn't go much stiffer than 200-250 lb springs without going with bigger torsion bars.

azmi951

I love mine and have had them for 1.5 years. The only problem I had was the adjuster set screw got stuck in the adjusting collar and the head stripped. I replaced it with a bolt of the same thread.

I run 300# springs and 30 MM torsion bars

Musche

I have this kit on my car along with the coilovers you mention on the back and it is a very adjustable setup. My advice to you is to call Jason at Paragon and explain your situation and what you want to do with the car. He is one of the best for advice that comes from experience, not heresay. I haven't bought them yet but there is a company that sells a flat sandwich type bearing that fits between the spring and the perch for a little less friction and noise. I can't find the vendor but a search will yield some answers.

billthe3

Looking at the parts the springs look like they are 250lbs (or at least have 250 written on the end of the springs).

I'm getting myself confused with suspension parts though - are torsion bars different from sway bars? The car already has a 28mm Weltmiester in the front and a 22mm Weltmiester in the rear. Would these be enough to help compensate for the increased understeer the coil-overs create?
http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...lt_sb-5400.htm
http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...lt_sb-6100.htm
Just to clarify, I only have the koni yellow's in the rear with the stock springs.

Thanks again for info.

On a side note: I really should get under the car to look at all this stuff myself - is there any special floor jack mount needed to lift the car or will the floor jack cup thing work fine with the sideskirts?

hally

torsion bars are a different beast from sway bars. The sways are more about body roll, while the torsion bars perform the same job as coil springs.

TheRealLefty

Bill,

Hally's got it right. Quick history will help you here.

The 944 suspension, in it's evolved form (post 87 in base trim and all the M030 Sport Suspension variants thereafter), is still based on VW Rabbit geometry in the front and Super Beetle trailing arms in the rear. Humble roots.

The cast aluminum arms on late cars are unique Porsche parts, but they are still based on stamped steel units used in the original 944's back in 83. Porsche upwardly engineered the suspension in 86, based in part on the introduction of the Turbo and in part on the cessation of Super Beetle stamping production for the rear.

Moving forward in time, it didn't take long for performance enthusiasts and the factory itself to figure out that, despite it's humble beginnings, the 944 platform was/is very well balanced and very adjustable nose to tail. As Hally shared, sway bars in OE ranges from 21 to 30 mm for the front and 14 to 19 mm in the tail help control body roll. In concert with spring rates and shock settings, the bars work sorta "in reverse"....the bigger the bar and the stiffer the suspension on either end of the car, the more grip you create in the OPPOSITE end.

Thus, as was also mentioned in this thread, if you beef up the nose with heavier springs and bars and do nothing to the tail...the tail sticks like glue and nose plows around.

You have three options as to how to stiffen the tail to match the nose - a bigger sway bar which acts as a spring on sorts when weight is transferred side the side and some combination of a bigger torsion bar and/or stiffer shock to effect front to rear weight transfer. The least expensive but most time consuming method is to upgrade the factory 23.5 mm torsion bars to sizes from 25.5 through 30 mm, depending on your front spring rate. The faster, but pricier method is to go with coil-over rear shocks, which were available on 968's or from several aftermarket companies. Most aggressive coil overs are so stiff they raise the rear, which means you end up doing the labor on torison bars anyway, if only to reindex them for a lower ride height.

The problem with working on torsion bars in a 944 is that the rear crossmember must be dropped to do so...no handy holes in the rear fenders like in the bathtub Dub world.

But, all that said, the end result of all this shared experience and robust aftermarket is the potential to have an amazing handling car. Many a gold chained, tail dragging weenie has been blown in the weeds by well prepped water coolers! No black magic to the mods and there are years of experience available from guys like Jason and Skip at Paragon. They don't just sell the stuff. They drive the cars, they race the cars and they know the cars. Works out well for all concerned, IMO.

Musche

As far as jacking up the car, you can buy one of those fancy adapters with the locating pin for the stock jacking points. I myself use a 4" hole saw to cut out a pice of 2x4 that sits on top of the jack pad. This keeps the jack arm from bumping the side skirts and bending them when using the jack points behind the front tire. The wood fits nicely in the area around the jacking point. Two floor jacks raise the front of the car until stands can be put under the front crossmember and then raise the back. I use the bottom of the transmission case but there has been some discussion about this procedure whether it hurts the transmission. I personnally have never had any issues with this method. But you really do need to survey the underside of your car. Since I rebuilt mine two years ago and fixed all the leaks and problems, a quick scoot on the creeper from front to back has found some minor issues that could have turned into big ones (a couple loose bolts/screws, minor leak, etc). 20 year old cars need attention!

Musche

These are the bearings I was talking about. Scroll down for the picture and where to get them.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/225883-my-suspension-is-clunking-from-coilovers.html

billthe3

Thanks for the info TheRealLefty. I think I'm just going to print that whole post out.

And thanks for the jack info Musche.