Where is my oil going?
09-05-2006, 02:10 PM
#16
Drifting
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I know my car is not burning oil. There is a bit of oil in the inter cooler pipes not puddles but sticky. I think my leak is the rear main seal. All the rest of the seals are new. I was recommended that I quit using Synthetic oil that that will help a bit and put off the clutch job, piolt bearing, fly wheel and rear main seal will have to happen with time.
I change the oil every 3 thousand miles so I figure it might be a waste to use synthetic oil any way as long as I use the recommend weight in mineral oil?
Oh According to Valvoline:
Check the oil when the engine is warm. Oil expands when it's hot and contracts when it's cold; different temperatures will give you different readings.
Here are the steps to follow to check your Porsche's oil:
1. Park the car on a level surface.
2. Turn off the engine. It's best to wait at least 10 minutes to give the oil a chance to drain down into the crankcase. Otherwise, you might think you're as much as a quart low when you're not.
3. Open your hood.
4. .........I am forsure you know the rest!
I change the oil every 3 thousand miles so I figure it might be a waste to use synthetic oil any way as long as I use the recommend weight in mineral oil?
Oh According to Valvoline:
Check the oil when the engine is warm. Oil expands when it's hot and contracts when it's cold; different temperatures will give you different readings.
Here are the steps to follow to check your Porsche's oil:
1. Park the car on a level surface.
2. Turn off the engine. It's best to wait at least 10 minutes to give the oil a chance to drain down into the crankcase. Otherwise, you might think you're as much as a quart low when you're not.
3. Open your hood.
4. .........I am forsure you know the rest!
Last edited by SchnellerUmsetzer; 09-05-2006 at 02:33 PM.
09-05-2006, 03:59 PM
#17
Racer
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I check it in the morning when cold just as a point of reference so I can do a comparison between readings. You are supposed to check it hot. The 10 minute wait makes sense and is true for me when I have checked it hot.
Do you notice any oil on the lower tray or anywhere else indicating a bad rear main seal? I replaced mine when I swapped my engine but did read that they can be prone to leaking if not installed right.
This weekend I unplugged the AOS hose from the J-Boot, plugged the J-Boot, then ran the car on a few full boost runs to see if the AOS would spit any oil. It did not. I replaced the rear cam cork gasket and put a bunch of RTV on the balance shaft cover as I did see a small bit of oil at the rear of the trey on the passenger side. It did not help. I have tightened a few things up but still have the oil level dropping.
Would oil dumped from the turbo directly in the exhaust still put out blue smoke? The white (perhaps light grey) smoke on boost has me confused on the cause. Can a leak in the headgasket consume oil?
Thanks,
Mark
Do you notice any oil on the lower tray or anywhere else indicating a bad rear main seal? I replaced mine when I swapped my engine but did read that they can be prone to leaking if not installed right.
This weekend I unplugged the AOS hose from the J-Boot, plugged the J-Boot, then ran the car on a few full boost runs to see if the AOS would spit any oil. It did not. I replaced the rear cam cork gasket and put a bunch of RTV on the balance shaft cover as I did see a small bit of oil at the rear of the trey on the passenger side. It did not help. I have tightened a few things up but still have the oil level dropping.
Would oil dumped from the turbo directly in the exhaust still put out blue smoke? The white (perhaps light grey) smoke on boost has me confused on the cause. Can a leak in the headgasket consume oil?
Thanks,
Mark
09-05-2006, 05:26 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Hi Guys,
I'm having the same problem but my I/C pips are wet with oil. I'm using lots of oil but don't seem to have any leaks. the car is a Euro '88 951 "S" with just under 100,00 on it. The P/O said the turbo was recently rebuilt. Also, I have a vacuum leak near the back of the block but can't find it. Using the plumbing cap tool with a valve stem I have checked every joint and line in sight but have yet to track it down. I'm reasonably sure it's not the line to the wastegate anfd it's none of the lines above the maniflod are that are visible beneath the manifold. Boost is non-existant. The car is stock except for APE chips set. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lanny
I'm having the same problem but my I/C pips are wet with oil. I'm using lots of oil but don't seem to have any leaks. the car is a Euro '88 951 "S" with just under 100,00 on it. The P/O said the turbo was recently rebuilt. Also, I have a vacuum leak near the back of the block but can't find it. Using the plumbing cap tool with a valve stem I have checked every joint and line in sight but have yet to track it down. I'm reasonably sure it's not the line to the wastegate anfd it's none of the lines above the maniflod are that are visible beneath the manifold. Boost is non-existant. The car is stock except for APE chips set. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lanny
09-05-2006, 05:43 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by a4944
I check it in the morning when cold just as a point of reference so I can do a comparison between readings. You are supposed to check it hot. The 10 minute wait makes sense and is true for me when I have checked it hot.
Do you notice any oil on the lower tray or anywhere else indicating a bad rear main seal? I replaced mine when I swapped my engine but did read that they can be prone to leaking if not installed right.
This weekend I unplugged the AOS hose from the J-Boot, plugged the J-Boot, then ran the car on a few full boost runs to see if the AOS would spit any oil. It did not. I replaced the rear cam cork gasket and put a bunch of RTV on the balance shaft cover as I did see a small bit of oil at the rear of the trey on the passenger side. It did not help. I have tightened a few things up but still have the oil level dropping.
Would oil dumped from the turbo directly in the exhaust still put out blue smoke? The white (perhaps light grey) smoke on boost has me confused on the cause. Can a leak in the headgasket consume oil?
Thanks,
Mark
Do you notice any oil on the lower tray or anywhere else indicating a bad rear main seal? I replaced mine when I swapped my engine but did read that they can be prone to leaking if not installed right.
This weekend I unplugged the AOS hose from the J-Boot, plugged the J-Boot, then ran the car on a few full boost runs to see if the AOS would spit any oil. It did not. I replaced the rear cam cork gasket and put a bunch of RTV on the balance shaft cover as I did see a small bit of oil at the rear of the trey on the passenger side. It did not help. I have tightened a few things up but still have the oil level dropping.
Would oil dumped from the turbo directly in the exhaust still put out blue smoke? The white (perhaps light grey) smoke on boost has me confused on the cause. Can a leak in the headgasket consume oil?
Thanks,
Mark
Yes the pan is a bit wet. I have not other leaks that I know of and the oil is clean (No water). The Porshce wrench at the dealerhship told me he thought it was the frigging oil sending unit and replaced it. I never see smoke coming out ot the car like I believe there should be when you get on it.
09-05-2006, 05:48 PM
#21
Hi Lanny! If boost is non existant is it possible the wastegate is stuck open? Does the car have an aftermarket boost gauge? If so, what are your vacuum readings?
As for oil in the intercooler pipes I know that most 951's have some oil in the piping and tend to use a liter of oil every 5000 km or so of hard driving. Does the car smoke at all during start up or under boost?
Erik
P.S. Just read your "using lots of oil". How much is lots?
As for oil in the intercooler pipes I know that most 951's have some oil in the piping and tend to use a liter of oil every 5000 km or so of hard driving. Does the car smoke at all during start up or under boost?
Erik
P.S. Just read your "using lots of oil". How much is lots?
09-05-2006, 07:01 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Chris White
A brief dissertation on Oil Loss
There are seven ways to lose oil.
1) External leaks – leaves messy spots on ground and mess on engine.
2) Worn Cylinders/bad rings – results in oil in the intercooler pipes and blue smoke out the tail pipe under engine braking and initial acceleration*. Can also cause external leaks due to pressurizing the block. No smell unless very bad consumption
3) Worn valve guides – results in smoking under engine braking but no oil in intercooler pipes. Not much smoking under acceleration. May have oil Smell .
4) Leaking Turbo – Smokes at idle (once warm) as much as smoking under load. This has a distinctive oily smell since the oil does not go through the combustion chamber but it leaked into the hot exhaust.
5) Bad Head gasket/oil cooler seals – leaks oil into coolant system, look for oil globule in coolant reservoir. Usually the coolant will end up in the oil as well. No smoke or smell.
6) Too much oil/windage – if you overfill the oil or are running max oil level on the track you may be aerating your oil (crank hits oil and froths up). This can over come the air/oil separator and put oil into the intake. Usually only shows up under track driving or very hard street driving.
7) Alien abduction - Leaves unpleasant burnt circles in your front yard.
That about it. You can usually figure out which issue you have by the smell and looking in the intercooler pipes. Keep in mind you may have more than one type of issue in a high mileage engine.
• - if the oil in the intake system is excessive it may continue to smoke under acceleration as there may be a lot of built up oil to burn off.
Chris White
There are seven ways to lose oil.
1) External leaks – leaves messy spots on ground and mess on engine.
2) Worn Cylinders/bad rings – results in oil in the intercooler pipes and blue smoke out the tail pipe under engine braking and initial acceleration*. Can also cause external leaks due to pressurizing the block. No smell unless very bad consumption
3) Worn valve guides – results in smoking under engine braking but no oil in intercooler pipes. Not much smoking under acceleration. May have oil Smell .
4) Leaking Turbo – Smokes at idle (once warm) as much as smoking under load. This has a distinctive oily smell since the oil does not go through the combustion chamber but it leaked into the hot exhaust.
5) Bad Head gasket/oil cooler seals – leaks oil into coolant system, look for oil globule in coolant reservoir. Usually the coolant will end up in the oil as well. No smoke or smell.
6) Too much oil/windage – if you overfill the oil or are running max oil level on the track you may be aerating your oil (crank hits oil and froths up). This can over come the air/oil separator and put oil into the intake. Usually only shows up under track driving or very hard street driving.
7) Alien abduction - Leaves unpleasant burnt circles in your front yard.
That about it. You can usually figure out which issue you have by the smell and looking in the intercooler pipes. Keep in mind you may have more than one type of issue in a high mileage engine.
• - if the oil in the intake system is excessive it may continue to smoke under acceleration as there may be a lot of built up oil to burn off.
Chris White
You mention oil in the intercooler piping is from the rings/cylinders. Can you explain to me how? I always assumed that if the oil was coming before the throttle body that it had to be coming from the turbo side of things. (ie: following the air path - into turbo, into intercooler, out of intercooler, into throttle body and finally into engine.) How would oil go from the rings/cylinders to the intercooler?
As for worn valve guides - wouldn't the car also smoke on start up? I had a 1987 Firebird Formula and was told that with worn guides and they would leak oil into the combustion chamber when the car was turned off. On start up I would get a short puff of smoke and then the guides would seal. True or False?
Additionally, with forged pistons in a sleeved engine will there be some smoke on cold start until the piston rings seat? I was told that cars with forged pistons can/will smoke a little on start up. Just wondering.
Erik
09-05-2006, 09:23 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by SoloRacer
Hi Lanny! If boost is non existant is it possible the wastegate is stuck open? Does the car have an aftermarket boost gauge? If so, what are your vacuum readings?
As for oil in the intercooler pipes I know that most 951's have some oil in the piping and tend to use a liter of oil every 5000 km or so of hard driving. Does the car smoke at all during start up or under boost?
Erik
P.S. Just read your "using lots of oil". How much is lots?
As for oil in the intercooler pipes I know that most 951's have some oil in the piping and tend to use a liter of oil every 5000 km or so of hard driving. Does the car smoke at all during start up or under boost?
Erik
P.S. Just read your "using lots of oil". How much is lots?
I bought the 88 Euro "S" that was in Calgary for awhile. I bought it very right and was prepared for the work involved plus having a primo parts car to draw from doesn't hurt. I haven't got it up on jack stands yet because my garage is still full after moving house and blending families in mid-August. Ok. To the car. (It hasn't had boost since I got it. Mini vans were passing me in the mountains
) Anyway, it used five litres of oil between Victoria and here. When I got back I checked all the plugs and they all look real good. There is no oil under the car, at all. The P/O had the timing belt etc done and resealed the motor at that time. The turbo was also recently rebuilt. I can hear the leak when I pressurize the system from the turbo side of the I/C. I jusat can't seem to get a hand on it. As for the oil when I opened up the I/C pipes there was visible oil pooled in there. Did it look like five litres? No. It looked like two or three ounces. So....what do you think? Lanny
09-05-2006, 09:24 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Lanny Curlett
Hi Eric,
I bought the 88 Euro "S" that was in Calgary for awhile. I bought it very right and was prepared for the work involved plus having a primo parts car to draw from doesn't hurt. I haven't got it up on jack stands yet because my garage is still full after moving house and blending families in mid-August. Ok. To the car. (It hasn't had boost since I got it. Mini vans were passing me in the mountains ) Anyway, it used five litres of oil between Victoria and here. When I got back I checked all the plugs and they all look real good. There is no oil under the car, at all. The P/O had the timing belt etc done and resealed the motor at that time. The turbo was also recently rebuilt. I can hear the leak when I pressurize the system from the turbo side of the I/C. I jusat can't seem to get a hand on it. As for the oil when I opened up the I/C pipes there was visible oil pooled in there. Did it look like five litres? No. It looked like two or three ounces. So....what do you think?
Lanny
I bought the 88 Euro "S" that was in Calgary for awhile. I bought it very right and was prepared for the work involved plus having a primo parts car to draw from doesn't hurt. I haven't got it up on jack stands yet because my garage is still full after moving house and blending families in mid-August. Ok. To the car. (It hasn't had boost since I got it. Mini vans were passing me in the mountains
) Anyway, it used five litres of oil between Victoria and here. When I got back I checked all the plugs and they all look real good. There is no oil under the car, at all. The P/O had the timing belt etc done and resealed the motor at that time. The turbo was also recently rebuilt. I can hear the leak when I pressurize the system from the turbo side of the I/C. I jusat can't seem to get a hand on it. As for the oil when I opened up the I/C pipes there was visible oil pooled in there. Did it look like five litres? No. It looked like two or three ounces. So....what do you think? Lanny
09-05-2006, 09:48 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
I had bad oil consumption from a dying turbo, no oil drips, just hard driving oil would disappear, replaced the turbo and used mobil 1 and oil leaks are the issue now, no more mobil 1
09-05-2006, 10:41 PM
#26
Racer
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Found this in the 993 Turbo forum ...
blue smoke from exhuast = oil leaching into cylinder, mixes with fuel and burns blue - rings.
grey smoke from engine bay = oil leak, mixes with dust dirt etc and smolders grey/black - leak.
white smoke from exhaust = oil leeching into turbo exhuast housing, pure burning oil and burns white - turbo seals.
Once a seal starts to go the smoke will get worse and worse over time. The turbo oil pressure drops as it worsens until not enough then bang .... lots of white smoke ... just like James Bond smoke screen.
blue smoke from exhuast = oil leaching into cylinder, mixes with fuel and burns blue - rings.
grey smoke from engine bay = oil leak, mixes with dust dirt etc and smolders grey/black - leak.
white smoke from exhaust = oil leeching into turbo exhuast housing, pure burning oil and burns white - turbo seals.
Once a seal starts to go the smoke will get worse and worse over time. The turbo oil pressure drops as it worsens until not enough then bang .... lots of white smoke ... just like James Bond smoke screen.
01-18-2007, 02:26 PM
#27
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OK, still need help on this one. I went to the track at the end of last season and it went through a quart in 15 minutes when boosting like normal (all the way down the straight). It went from the max line to the min line. I went out again and did not get on the boost as hard (got off gas down the straights) and it did not consume much oil.
I had the turbo rebuilt but this was through a shop that sent it out. It's still consuming oil. From close to max to close to min in a 4 day period. I pulled the AOS line out of the j-boot and plugged the opening in the j-boot. I 've been running this way for a couple of days and getting on the boost. There is no noticable oil coming from the AOS line. The shop that did the turbo also did a leakdown and indicated there was almost none. Compression tests I have done have been OK also.
Could it still be the turbo? How else could oil be consumed on boost if it's not from blow-by through the AOS? The intercooler pipes have some oil but just a light coating and some minor pooling (only after the track event otherwise there was no pooling) at where the rubber connections attach to pipes so it does not appear that there is a ton of oil being dumped into the pipes from the turbo. The exhaust smokes but it smells like any exhaust. The car runs great and pulls very strong. It does run rough and smokes after sitting which could indicate guides or seals but the oil consumption seems to be when on boost.
I'm baffled and dissapointed as the track season is starting and I still have no idea what is causing this.
Thanks,
Mark
I had the turbo rebuilt but this was through a shop that sent it out. It's still consuming oil. From close to max to close to min in a 4 day period. I pulled the AOS line out of the j-boot and plugged the opening in the j-boot. I 've been running this way for a couple of days and getting on the boost. There is no noticable oil coming from the AOS line. The shop that did the turbo also did a leakdown and indicated there was almost none. Compression tests I have done have been OK also.
Could it still be the turbo? How else could oil be consumed on boost if it's not from blow-by through the AOS? The intercooler pipes have some oil but just a light coating and some minor pooling (only after the track event otherwise there was no pooling) at where the rubber connections attach to pipes so it does not appear that there is a ton of oil being dumped into the pipes from the turbo. The exhaust smokes but it smells like any exhaust. The car runs great and pulls very strong. It does run rough and smokes after sitting which could indicate guides or seals but the oil consumption seems to be when on boost.
I'm baffled and dissapointed as the track season is starting and I still have no idea what is causing this.
Thanks,
Mark
