jturbo

I am installing a Tial dual port wastegate, but will not be using a manual or digital boost controller. Rather, I have decided to install 1.1bar springs in order to regulate the boost.

How should the vacuum lines be routed? I have been told that you must remove the Cycling Valve?

jturbo

Does anyone have instructions or know where to find instruction on routing the vacuume lines when NOT running an aftermarket Boost Controler?

Please.

Ronin951

These may help.

http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchan...ry_Code=VACDIA

87944turbo

I also have a 46mm Tial, but I am using an MBC. The only difference between your setup and mine would be the deletion of the MBC. In the pic below you can see the blue line running from the IC pipe to the MBC near the firewall and then I have a black line that runs from the MBC to the side port of the Tial.

I unscrewed the top fitting from my stock wastegate and screwed it into the IC pipe fitting for the banjo bolt.

Your setup will just have a line running directly from the IC pipe (if that is what you choose to use) to the side port of your Tial. The top port of your Tial will be vented to atmosphere. I decided to connect an vacuum line to the top port and run the line back into the engine bay to keep dirt from getting into the top of the Tial. I should propbably have the open top of this line pointing down.

Also, Tial and Lindsey (which is a modified stock WG) do not work the same way. In the Tial, the valve travels upward to open. This is why your air signal is sent to the side of the WG. The valve in the Lindsey travels downward to open, which is why the air signal is sent to the top.

jturbo

Thanks.

Is it necessary to delete the Cycling Valve? What about the Venturi? Is there any advantage to doing this?

87944turbo

You don't have to remove the CV from your car. It will basically be sitting there not doing anything. I removed mine, but left the mouting bracket in place.

The venturi is not related to your WG or your CV other than it is part of the vacuum system. There should be some threads out there on the subject, but basically the venturi delete will simplify the vacuum system by getting rid of some hoses and parts. It really cleans things up under the intake and by removing some items, reduces the number of possible vacuum leak sources. IIRC the venturi system was deleted by Porsche in later models.

If you haven't pulled the intake to check the condition of these hoses, I would strongly recommend it. Some of mine were so brittle from heat cycling that they literally fell apart in my hands.

jturbo

Do you recommend running a MBC (Manual Boost Controler)? My primary concern with running a MBC is that the boost would not be set properly. There does not seem to be a "Science" to setting the ****. Then the fear that with the boost level set inappropriately, the car may run LEAN damaging the valves.

Will the engine management chips compensate (air / fuel ratio) for the adjustments made at the MBC? Or with the car just run the same air / fuel ratio no matter what boost level you have the MBC set at, resulting in either a rich or lean condition?

jacklet

stock or aftermarket chips what else is done to the car? if you have stock chips you prolly hit the cutoff

87944turbo

Your right, setting the **** is more trial and error. But if you buy a good MBC, a good aftermarket boost gauge, and take your time brining the boost up to the level you want, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you run lean, you can damage much more than just your valves!


No. Chips are generally designed to run at a specific boost level or over a range of boost pressure. So your chips should be designed for the level of boost you plan to run.

In a perfect world, your AFR should be as close as possible to the stochiometric ideal at all times. When your on boost, you are introducing significantly more air to the engine, you have to add more fuel to keep the AFR as close to ideal as possible. Otherwise you will have a rich or lean condition.

Earlier you mentioned running 1.1bar of boost with your Tial. Were you going to do this with stock chips?

Keep in mind that you should really go through your car's fuel system before you do any of these modifications. Is your fuel pump in good shape, is the fuel filter new, is your fuel injector harness in good shape, what kind of shape are your intectors in, have you had them cleaned recently, are you going to need a 3bar FPR, is your fuel pressure what it should be, and the list goes on... Any of these factors could cause you to run lean as well.

Hope this helps.

jturbo

Actually, I currently have the following engine modification:

Autothority MAF and Chips
K27-8DR turbo
Ported Polished PowerHaus Cylinder Head
1.1 bar Banjo Bolt
Autometer Boost Guage
3.0 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator
Stock Injectors

The Autothority chips have been modified by PowerHaus to run 1.1 bar of boost.

In this scenerio, is it possible to run the 1.1 bar springs?

Also, if I run a MBC should it be dialed in to run 1.1 bar, reading on my autometer gauge, at full throtle?

87944turbo

First of all, Nice mods!

Secondly, somebody familiar with Autothority needs to chime in here.

But I will tell you what I know about them. The 1.1bar banjo bolt you have has a specific size jet in it which restricts air flow to your WG, which as I understand it is a form of boost control and means you wouldn't want to run a MBC and the jetted banjo together.

It sounds like your car has been setup to run 1.1bar already. How much boost are you seeing on your gauge now?

I am also suprised that stock injectors can keep up with a K27/8?

I am also wondering how you can run 1.1bar with the CV and not have the overboost protection kick in?

There are people on this board that have forgotten more that I will probably ever know about these cars. Somebody else needs to weigh in on this.

jacklet

autothority chips get rid of the overboost protection, that sounds like the usual powerhaus combo it's pretty well sorted out why not just install the tial in single port mode with your set-up the way it is? additionally you can ditch the cycling valve go to a 'black ****' boost controller and run in dual port mode and adjust for 1.1 bar-as far as running with just the waste gate as long as the spring pressures accurate you can run 1.1 that way as well

jacklet

years ago i think it was 96 my 87 was equipped with pretty much that powerhaus set-up like i said it's pretty well sorted out. if i remember correctly they sold me a cycling valve with a restrictor in it as well-i think i still have it somewhere if i remember correctly Tony G ran a man. boost controller with a tial 46 and reported solid boost control-do a search

87944turbo

That makes sense, I forgot they sell a DME and a KLR chip. So their KLR chip eliminates the overboost protection.

jturbo

What would need to be done (ie: routing the vacuum lines) in order to run in "single port mode"? Would running in Single port mode be using the spring rate to control boost pressure? The following is some information that I was given if I am to use the spring rate to control the boost presure:
A. Run a vacuum line directly from the side port of the wastegate to the banjo bolt fitting located on the turbo intercooler pipe. Then cap off the vacuum fitting on the inlet to the turbo. Followed by disconnecting the cycling valve.

The other option I was given is to use an aftermarket boost controller to control the boost. Not sure if this is running in "Dual Port" Method (I am still shying away from this method as I am fearful of running LEAN!
B. Run a vacuum line from the side port of the wastegate to the banjo fitting located on the turbo to intercooler pipe. Then put a tee in this line and run it into the "IN" port on the boost controller. Then run a new line from the top of the wastegate to the "Out" port on the boost controller. Then Cap off the vacuum fitting on the inlet of the turbo and disconnect the cycling valve.

Are these SAFE methods (Correct routing of hoses) for running the Tial 46mm Wastegate?