philcav7

Yesterday I was getting some basic maint. done on my recentlyy aquired 1986 951 and got into a discussion with the mechanic regarding "starter" performance upgrades. During the conversation I bought a Weltmeister Chip set from him and they installed it. I was planning on a Vitesse chip but he offered a great price and it was there in hand...so I bought it.

Last night I was trying to find more information regarding this chip but didn't make out all to well. I have heard some say the run too rich at idle, others say too lean at upper RPM's, and others say aftermarket chips are all similar. Who knows!

At any rate, I called the tele # listed on weltmeister.com and number is actually for performanceproducts.com. After being on hold for a while, I informed the lady that I was looking for some information/support for the chips that were installed yesterday and that I would like to know what was recommended for boost management. After being on hold for another 5 minutes she bluntly informed me that they don't carry them anymore and could not help me. I explained that this number was listed on their website and asked if she had a tech support number for weltmeister...se said no and quickly ended our conversation.

So I am still in search of some solid info...

1. Anybody have contact information for Weltmeister?
2. Are these chips okay for basic upgrades( MBC, BOV, Exhaust) until I start serious upgrades in a few years(tubo, head, intercooler, and such)?
3. What should I do regarding boost management... MBC, banjo jetting, or a tial wastegate??

Finally, I would like some suggestions on a exhaust system that will work well with my simple bolt ons but also be appropriate for the future turbo upgrade. I would like something that offers a cat "test pipe" that will allow simple installation of a cat for emissions testing every two years.

Thanks All!

JoeN951

http://www.weltmeister.com/ Website lists an 1-800 number. My guess is that they will tell you no external boost control is recommended. Code written around stock set-up.

JoeN951

I should have read better. You already called that 800 number.

RKD in OKC

I ran an 88 Turbo S with Welt chips for quite a while and was pleased with the performance and used it for my daily driver.

I got 268 rwhp with these...

WeltMiester Chips
Wastegate Shim (came with chips)
Lindsey Boost Enhancer
Lindsey Stage 2 Intercooler
Gutted Cats
02 sensor unplugged

AL951

Paragon products carry them. They should be able to help with any questions you may have.

Good lock.

Regards,
AL

philcav7

No worries, those things happen.

So, are you saying that performance would be hindered by a boost conrtoller with most chips, or just the Welts?

I just assumed that a boost controller set to 10psi or so would help. From what I have read, the factory wastegate starts dumping slightly with any boost applied. I was just thinking that the MBC would prevent the factory wastegate from working against me.

Also, any input on BOV's? From what I see the pressure is released back into the intake...this means I won't have the "ssspcchhhh" every time I shift, right? I understand that BOV's don't make power, they just help lag/acceleration by reducing back pressure on the turbine. Is there a noticable improvement, or a waste of money on a stock system?

jerome951

I had a Weltmeister set in my car and thought they were decent for a cheap upgrade.

You need some way to control boost, either by shimming the wastegate (which should have come w/ the chipset) or a boost controller. However, the chips are programmed for boost to only 15lbs or so, so don't crank the boost too high and expect the chips to know how much fuel to add. Oh, and you'll need a higher (3 bar) fuel pressure regulator. The reason those chips were cheap is that the mechanic didn't sell you the whole package.

With those chips in my car and a cat, I never had trouble passing emissions in 2 different states, so they're aren't much richer than stock at idle and normal levels. I think they run a little richer than stock at WOT, but that's not a concern for emissions.

Weltmeister is (I believe) a brand from the old Automotion company, which was bought by Performance Products, so I'm not surprised that nobody there can address your request for information.

The factory KLR begins bleeding boost around 6psi or so (keeps the car more managable as the boost comes on). When you get your wastegate shimmed or MBC set, the boost will hit much harder.

Keep your stock BOV but make sure it's in good working order.

CO951

I was given a set of Welt chips for my 951S. I haven't installed them yet (I need to get a WG shim and 3.0 bar FPR). Welts do not require a boost controller. The documentaion says boost will be 2 bar on the stock gauge, so that would be just under 15 psi. I don't believe you can go higher than that even with a boost controller.

philcav7

Thanks for the info and please excuse my ignorance, as I am still learning.

I was considering the MBC as an alternative to shims in the WG. As I understand the stock wastegate is weak and begins dumping boost around 2psi. From what I have gathered the shims "load" the WG to counter-act this and causes the WG to start opening at higher boost levels. From my perspective, I figured a boost controller or enhancer could provide the same benefit. I was planning on setting the contoller below the WG threshold to minimize wasted boost and reduce lag, not to increase beyond the 15psi threshold of the wastegate.
Am I on the right track or not?!? From what I have read everywhere, the factory WG is weak and should be replaced, shimmed, used a jetted banjo, a boost enhancer, or boost controller. Is this true or am I just falling victim to marketing ploys from vendors???

Any comments on the FPR, why is this really needed? And would the Bosch from Lindsey be okay?

Thanks again all, I appreciate your time/input.

-Phil

CO951

You need the Bosch 3.0 bar FPR, which is the one that originally came with the Welt chips, and yes Lindsey sells them. You MUST install the fpr to ensure correct fuel levels. To prevent the boost from bleeding off too early you need either a new dual port WG or shims. Shims came in the original Welt chip kit. A boost enhancer or jetted banjo bolt would help to a very small extent, but is better mixed with shims. I would consider the boost enhancer the better of those two options. A boost controller will not help with the bleed off problem, it will just set the max boost level up th the 15 psi max. From what you are saying, I think what you are thinking of as a boost controlled is really a boost enhancer, which will help decrease early boost bleed off, but won't help high rpm boost bleed. I personally would install a dual port WG, or shims and a boost enhancer. A boost controler would be required with the dual port, but is optional with the shims and boost enhancer option. This is a boost enhancer and manual boost controller in one unit that might be a good option. http://www.boostsciences.com/accuboost.html

docwyte

Mike, I still have that shim sitting on my workbench. Email or PM me your address again and I promise I'll send it out!

philcav7

Alright, now I got it.

Thanks again!!!

-Phil

lart951

Sure you can run higher boost than 15psi with a mbc, big John from Texas was running 21psi of boost with a stock k-26.

lart951

Sure you can run higher boost than 15psi with a mbc, big John from Texas was running 21psi of boost with a stock k-26.

Phil, replace your stock wastegate with a 38mm tial, the stock wastegate is a POS I replaced my shimmed stock wastegate with a tial 38mm and I gained 25hp. Just check the next link.

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/244438-38mm-tial-installed-dyno-chart.html

CO951

I wasn't saying it isn't possible to go higher than 15psi with the stock turbo. I was saying that the Welt chip has a limit of 15psi built into the chip, just like the stock chips have a boost limit. There may be modifications you can make with these chips to get past the limit, but it takes more than a boost controller.