951_RS

I'd ask the same about either of you =/ You're telling me its okay for parts to break and that's bs. Sure, things will break when you race but that doesn't mean it has to do it constantly like you were suggesting. If you do a high rpm dump then things will break much more easily, but a little clutch slippage followed by some wheel spin can go a long way in gradually applying the power to the ground instead of all at once.
Have you only owned 944's or what? Let me guess my post count isn't high enough to be considered knowledgeable

You enjoy your constantly breaking axles while I go down the track and actually finish the race lol...

LFA951

Shhhhyea, if the driver is a 300 lb. gorilla!

951_RS

That's what I was wondering hah...

Imo000

What is nearly stock? was it stock boost?

DanaT

I have let my 951 come off the line at the strip at over 5000rpm. Hard launching too.

Basically what I have found, is that with the 951 you can either spin or bog. Spinning is both faster and quicker than bogging.

I don;t believe that when revved to 5000rpm with the clutch in I am making anywhere near max powr as there is very little load on the engine. Until there is load, the turbo isn't making much boost.

If anyone can tell me how to make 10-12psi of boost off the line, I am all ears. Then the car will scream and spoolup wont be an issue.

-Dana

ehall

My 86 is listed in the owners manual as weighing 2899lbs. The tank holds 21 gallons @ 8lbs per gallon = 168. Add a driver at 175lbs. You get 3242 lbs. I understand the 87 and later cars were heavier by about a hundred to a hundred and fifty pounds, so a gorilla isn't necessary to hit that weight.

"but if the axles break so easy they are crap and need to be replaced with stronger ones. if the clutch is that weak, buy a good one. if the tranny is so weak it can't handle 300 whp i dunno what to say"
Don't say anything then. These cars were designed for road racing not drag racing. The components are designed for their specific parameters. If you beef up the cv's, you will certainly glaze the clutch, and you very probably will grenade the tranny before too many runs. The CV's are definitely the preferred weak spot, for no other reason than cost, and labor time. A clutch is roughly 14 book hours. We won't get into a tranny rebuild.
Why you would want to finish a race but not win I don't know, but what the hell good is destroying the tires for second place, when you know you are going to lose anyway. To win you have to launch hard, and that is the express lane for all of the above problems in 951's.
By the way MPD has raced his car a bunch. He does know what he's talking about.

Robby

Weight is one serious can of worms... options can make a huge dif- there have been several RL threads started on weight & it seems most of the full interior cars here are in the 3000-3200lb range. The only curb weight I've ever seen listed for any 944 turbo, 1986-1989, is 2998lbs- the Turbo S would have to be a tiny bit heavier, even if comparing equivalent options, b/c the '86 never had optional ABS, but I don't think ABS adds more than ~5lbs, although I could be mistaken... I just don't believe there's nearly as big of a weight dif b/t '86 & Turbo S as people say...

Ehall- are you 100% sure that's 2899 & not 2998??? Also, I'm pretty sure the 86 had a slightly smaller tank- one year definately had a 19gal tank. We had a big thread on this ~5yrs ago & whatever year Danno's car is, was the year...I think it was an '86... My Turbo S is definately 21.1gal though So, w/a full tank, spare in back, fully intact stereo, AC, all options, etc, my Turbo S weighed almost 3160lbs- this is w/no driver, personal items, or any other stuff in the car. All 951's I've ever seen tested have shown ~3000lbs curb & ~3150lbs actual...

June 1988 C&D- Turbo S- 3190 curb - didn't list actual

June 1988 R&T- Turbo S- 3195 curb - 3355 actual

June 1988 Automobile Magazine- Turbo S- 2998 curb - no actual

May 1988 MT-Turbo S 2998 curb & 3083 test

April 1987 R&T Road Test Annual ('86 cars? This test included the 951, 944, 911 Cab, 911 turbo, & 928S)- 3000 curb - 3145 test The 944NA was 2900 curb - 3060 test

November 1989 Automobile Magazine (951S VS 300ZXTT)- 2998 curb - no actual

Those are all of the Turbo S tests I'm aware of & I really haven't seen many regular 951 tests at all...

Either way, the weight dif b/t the '86 951 & Turbo S has come up before, but I'd bet it's more along the lines of ~60lbs or so... I've seen some very exaggerated weights for various options too, like: ABS - 50lbs, SR - 40lbs, & air bags - 40lbs, etc... All the SR add's is the motor & hardware- maybe ~10lbs(?)- the SR panel itself adds nothing- I'd rather have a SR car for track- remove motor, etc & replace the panel w/CF & lose ~19lbs from the roof. Anyway, the Turbo S had thicker rotors & some of the susp parts might have been a touch heavier. Airbags add maybe ~7lbs total. LSD/OD...? Stereo, etc...?

BTW- I'm NOT trying to be argumentative w/anyone here- my posts here have all been in the normal spirit of discussing these cars & nothing more- just enthusiasts discussing things that most people would call us crazy for even thinking about- especially at 6AM...

Dana- exactly my point on the bogging issue... It's an easy call though, so long as you have an LSD- it really shoots you out of the hole pretty well.

MPD47

Race to win or dont bother. The only time that doesnt apply is when you're Ice Racing a 350z that isnt yours, and then you race to finish with no damage. I can slip the clutch, I can roach the tires, but these cars are not meant for hard launches. They WILL break if you plan on really getting off the line. BadCoupe and I have speant a bit of time at the drag strip and actually know first hand what we're saying is true.

GURU Chips 14psi leaking to 9psi at redline no other mods. That was 3 years ago IIRC. I could pretty much consistantly pull 13.9's @101-102 everytime I went.

Oh yeah, and I've weighed my car WITHOUT me in it @ ~3100 when it was stock. It's an '86 with no airbags or ABS. Closer to 2500 now with a lot of work. I'll be happy to post a video of me later this year, probably breaking an axle, at the drag strip. I'm not even going to bother driving my car there, it's going on the trailer. Hmmm let's see, $99 axle with a lifetime warrenty, tires at $300 a side on the rear, clutch @ 1000 + labor, built transaxle at ~$5000... I wonder which I'd rather break...

You have to engineer your setup to have a cheap weak link, if you dont you have no place modifying a car. Or you have gobs of money. If it's the latter, I envy you, I'd rather be sponsered by Autozone's core deposits.

Imo000

Obviously, we have two different point of views when it comes to drag racing. You want to get the best possible time regardless of what it takes and I on the other hand don't mind getting .1-.2sec less if it means saving the car. I'm not going to destroy my car for that lousy .1 sec. Aftrer all it means nothing, it's just a number. I agree, you need to plan for a weak link to make the setup predictable. For you it's the CV and for me it's stock size tires (225).

I don't mind loosing loosing traction every once in a while.This only happens either on hard launches or if I step on it comingout out of a corner. It makes drawing a little more fun.

Robby

Mike- ~3100 sounds about right- that would be somewhere in the 50-60lb dif b/t an 86 & Turbo S... I'm curious though- how much are factory axles? Do the ones you buy for $99 hold up as well as stock? Even if not, that doesn't sound very bad... might be the cheapest way to go- for normal non-competitive street driving, I think I'll stick to normal street tires & try to be as gentle as possible, but at $99, that's not a bad weak link to be dragging... Either way, these cars can make good dragsters if done correctly, but it's a lot of work & is much more expensive than many others one could get- it's obvious they weren't made to be good dragsters from the factory, but what does that have to do w/anything anyway...?

MPD47

I havent broken an axle since I purchased $99 ones, but granted, I've only driven the car about 20 miles since then and havent done any racing yet. It's not even tuned.

toddk911

"If anyone can tell me how to make 10-12psi of boost off the line, I am all ears. Then the car will scream and spoolup wont be an issue."

Put on the E brake real hard; then have clutch slightly out and giving gas. This will load up the motor, much like brake boosting, then let of the E brake when you launch.

Would take some practice.

DanaT

I will practice this one! It sounds like I only need three arms to do it....

-Dana

toddk911

No, jsut gotta switch from left hand on Ebrake and right on steering wheel. release ebrake with left hand and then switch left hand to streering wheel and right to stick and back to normal from there.

Raceboy

Sry guys, but hand-brake is just an option and not the best. 3-pedal launch is the key to succesful manual gearbox drag-racing. I personally use this technique: with your heel you push the brake pedal and hold the clutch pedal with your toe. With your right foot doze the throttle and let the clutch slip A BIT just to feel the rear end of the car lowering a bit and depending on the tarmac conditions, choose the rpm where to hold it (on my 931 it's 3200). Doing so, you relieve the bang when launching putting a little bit of load on the drivetrain and getting some boost. With drag radials the grip is perfect and inspite of traction the tyres are some sort of buffer (because they're soft).
You guys scream hysterically that dragracing is sooooo bad thing, almost taboo here. You are like girls complaining about poor drivetrain reliability without having much experience in dragging them. If you don't like to dragrace then don't but don't be a steady nay-sayer when others want to do it. Sorry for such a grumpy talk.

I've dragraced quite a lot of Porsches and so are my friends (they race 951's), couple of axles in a 5-6 years isn't tha much. Hell, my G31 gearbox on 931 is very strong and yes it's possible to build a strong drag car out of trans-axle Porsche.