porshhhh951

I can assure you it wasent supercharged. Dont be stupid even low boost s/c 928's put out good power.

It was prolly stock or close to stock. Back when my 951 and my dads 928 were stock we would race and I will pull him up top a couple of cars so your race sounds about right.

Rich Sandor

Bart, I think you misssed the run that everyone did up to Vmax. At one point the two 928's where redlining in 5th gear with two or three 951's right behind.. not falling back or gaining.. but right there.

In stockish form, most of these cars are very even.. I would dare to say the driver makes a bigger difference than the car does!

RKD in OKC

I'll post it again.

The factory quoted 0-60 for a 928 GT and a 944 Turbo S is the same. BUT a 944 Turbo S is hard to beat from 60 to 100, these things go thru 3rd gear pretty dern quick. The 928 gets it's wind above 115 when the aerodynamics really kick in.

Just my humble observation having owned both.

Rich Sandor

Except the 951 has the same or better aero than the 928.

(0.32 to 0.34 for the 951, vs 0.34 to 0.35 for the 928S4/GT/GTS)

MarkRobinson

A normal 928 makes about 270rwhp/tq. A supercharged or turbocharged 928 makes a minimum of about 360rwhp/tq. My turbo 928 @ 7psi makes low 400's & SO incredibly faster than my 355rwhp 951S ever was. Even at 3psi, my 270/310rwhp '86 951 was no match.
Mark.

Rich Sandor

There's no replacement for displacement! It's no surprise Mark Kibbort's 928 does so well against much newer cars. However, the early 928s are as ugly as 924s, and to get into a supercharged 928S4/GT/GTS is a bit outside the budget of guys getting into 951s. Remember too, that 928s are GT cars, as such are quite a bit heavier with all the requisite novelities of a GT car. A 3000lbs 951 is easier to get down to 2750lbs without resorting to lexan and fibreglass, while the curb weight of a stock 928GTS is 3,593 lbs, almost 600lbs heavier than a stock 951!!! The 928 being so much heavier, just can not be as nimble as a lightweight 944. The 928 guys are always in denial about this! Furthermore, I find that more 928 guys are into drag racing primarily, while 944 guys are more into road racing. Apples to Oranges.

lart951

Mark, I am sorry to disagree, but a 355rwhp 951 has greater power to weight ratio than a 400rwhp 928. There is a difference of 550lbs between the 2. The 928 is faster off the line I agree 100%, but from a roll the 951 will at least stay with the 928. Remenber (emphasis added) from a roll not from standing still, the greater torque an displacement of the 928 make a better car to drag race.

lart951

That's very straight talk, you are probably sober today. Very nice Rich

Rich Sandor

A bit hungover, but definately sober!

sweanders

Having owned a 928 GT and a 951, 928 was stock and the 951 was almost stock when I first got it. I have to say that the 928 was not accelerating as fast as the 951. My 928 did hit 6700 rpm's which is a higher top speed than Porsches official numbers but my experience from playing with friends is that a stock 968 was dead even up to ~150 mph, probably due to gearing, and from that the 928 would be faster. The 951 is clearly faster than the 968 due to the extra torque even if it has similar gearing as the 928GT.

It will be interesting to see what John Kuhns twin turbo S4 will be like.

Rich Sandor

An N/A 5L v8 is a close match for a turbo'd 2.5L i4. But once you forcefeed that V8, it's in a different dimension. The big engine itself is awsome, but the 928 is just a heavy car and doesn't take well to the kinds of modifications and usage 951 owners like to partake in. Both very different, yet very awsome cars.

Don't forget too, a 928S4 has the same brakes as a 951S.. yet the 951S weighs 600lbs less. Guess who's brakes are gonna get mushy first???

MarkRobinson

my '86 928S is 3300lbs & makes a tame 430rwhp/tq (full torque at 3k) I have a much greater power band & power level than most boosted 951's.

I'd had boosted both: stock vs full blown 951. The 928-turbo is much faster. Unless you've owned & driven both, not sure how you can argue that.

Both cars are great track cars with similar suspension mods: you can get a lot more rubber under the 928 than a 944, both are 50/50 weight, 928's torque makes up for extra weight.

lart951

Okay,can't argue with you about the 928, but tell us about your modded 355rwhp 951, do you have a dyno sheet, can you elaborate about the mods you have in your 951?

Dash01

And, to add another $0.02 to the discussion, and based on my unscientific musings based on hardly any real world observation from the '04 Hell's Gate run: Keep in mind, my first post was based on tomfoolery [I]at altitude in the mountains[/I]. Up there in the thinner air, a turbocharged car is gonna have significant advantage over a normally aspirated car, and the 928 guys that showed up that day were all un-turbo or -supercharged, as I recall.

Also, keep in mind that the lead cars Travis(?), Brain, Rage2, me, etc. were all 944 Turbos with at least some degree of modification. Rage2 was so modified that he oughta go by "Outrage2!" Travis (I think it was, but not sure) knows and does alot about his mods, but he ain't talkin. Brian is no slouch, either. So, FWIW, on a roadrace over the same route, I'd still put my money on these guys vs. 928s.

Rich Sandor

Like I said, nothing compares to a boosted 928 V8. But your line of thought that "the extra torque makes up for the extra weight" is where you and I differ in opinion.

The 951 stems from the small and delicate 924. The 928 is the complete opposite, designed as a big fat comfy ride with all the excesses that Porsche could dream up. You can bring a 951 back to it's lightweight 924 roots very easily, and it regains much of that Lotus-like agility. The 928 doesn't have those kind of roots to go back to! It's no slouch whatsoever when it comes to handling, we all know that it is far superior to any contemporary american muscle car, but it does not carve corners like a 944 does.

More comfort = more stuff = more weight = more momentum = more resistance to changing direction = worse handling!!!

Having more power on tap does NOT make the car handle better.