Buckaroo Banzi

928 motorsports has advertised Nikasil process on Rennlist for our blocks repair bore and hone.

Has anyone actually used them?

Anyone have it done to there blocks and the engine is assembled and running?

Any feed back on the process pro or con?

DFASTEST951

Powerhaus uses Nikasil coatings. Works like a champ for me.

rcatherton

Make sure the coating is thick enough to do the job. Porsche used nikasil on the 911 liners along with the alusil which was cheeper. Nikasil should have superior wear properties assuming it is not damaged by a high sulfer content fuel. The BMW 540's apparently had problems with this.

Claus Groth

I had not read before about Niksil being an option for our engines. I have three bare blocks with varying degrees of scoring and I would like to build a spare engine for the track car. If an engine with scratched bores is Nikasil coated, can the stock pistons still be used or are aluminum pistons required? How does the Nikasil process (and possible new pistons) compare with the cost of liners and new pistons? Are there any other options?

Buckaroo Banzi

Two company's are supposed leaders in the field both have the about the same pricing around $800 for a 944 block.

One U.S. Chrome has reputedly the originator has completed 1 million cylinders and has a PHD on staff but only offers a ONE YEAR warranty.

The other one Millennium Technologies has a LIFETIME warranty and
has the guy who wrote an article describing the process and is being recommended by EBS Racing.

Talking with EBS Racing they tell me that I can stock pistons however I can't use stock rings the stock top chrome piston ring but I can use a 996 ring that is designed to be used on a Nikasil block. cost for rings is $150.

Speaking of cost here is what I have compiled ..

Alusi Bore hone to oversize $450+ California Machine Shop
Oversize pistons needed 100.50mm $990+From Tom Chastworth (Rennlister)
Tom special coats the JE Pistons to work with the Alusi Blocks

Oversize stock Pistons prices vary all over the place if you can find them
from $1200 all the way to $2200 and up...

Sleeving blocks cost vary from $1600 - $3500 depending on what system you use if you sleeve you still have to use oversize pistons however with steel sleeves cheaper pistons are available from $75 - 200 each...

The most cost effective solution I have found for fixing repairing our blocks seems to be the Nikasil process around $800+shipping and $150 for rings
total around $1100

hosrom_951

I know that Lindsey makes 3.2L 944 blocks and Nikasil plate the bores, using JE sport pistons.

Darton sleeves are for $800/set, will work with almost any piston (according to what they told me). They also do the work, but don't forget, once you go 'big bore' (over 2.5L) you would need to change the a few other goodies.

pk951

You can get the block sleved at Darton for 1800$ mid sleves, much better option than putting coatings on our bores which might not last? I dont think our piston are compatible with nikasil plating. So you would have to change the piston to.

Just a thought.

OriginalSterm

i don't know if 996 rings will work, but i'm pretty sure 964 rings are the correct size and design for nikasil.

hosrom_951

Last time i contacted Darton in early Feb, they quoted me $800 (or maybe it was $700, can't find the email) for the sleeves. They charge $1000-$1100 for installing the sleeves? sounds expensive to me, are you sure on the price?

macnewma

The quality of sleeve installation can vary. I would venture to guess that the quality of the installation is more important than the actually sleeve. I have heard huge ranges in price and the cheap ones usually have no experience doing it at all, let alone in our motors.

I think he is also referring to the MID sleeves like what Chris White sells. I don't know how that changes the price, but it is certainly different than installing dry sleeves.

Also, for those of you who are interested in the NiChrome process, you might want to do some research on RL. There has been some success and some failure. I think it might a good process if you want to keep stock pistons, but you need to remove every bit of ferrous metal. This time consuming and you can have some problems if you miss a dowel pin. You also need to mask off everything that shouldn't be coated. There is a "chemical-etch" involved which can throw off tolerances to bearing surfaces even after the finally coating is applied.

Tom M'Guinn

I have a set of Tom Charlesworth's pistons (105mm if anyone is interested --seem to need some valve pocket work at this size). He is a PCA guy, but I am not sure if he is a rennlister? The pistons I received are not JE pistons. He uses a different domestic piston maker, unless he's changes since I bought mine. The pistons have a dry lubricant coating, and people have reported success using them (e.g. Ski). They are not iron-coated like Mahle pistons, however, from what I can tell.

Zero10

I bought a set from Tom Charlesworth as well, and they are not JE pistons.

IMO the best option is sleeving. If the sleeves are iron or steel, then they will last a very very long time (read 300k+ miles).
VW uses nodular iron cylinders on their TDI's, and we all know how long those engines go.
Sleeving costs more now, but there are no coating issues, you can use cheaply-produced pistons, and can over-bore at the same time with little consequence.

AL951

The problem with sleeving is that anlike the VW TDI and other manufactures, our engines were not design to be produce in this manner. So quality and durability are always a question mark.

Regards,
AL

pk951

I have seen the job that Darton did on My Swiss block they did an excelent job. The Honda guys running big boost are installing mid sleeves as well, they are having the same issues as our turbos at high boost. Open deck design does not lead itself to high boost. Plus with the Mid sleeves you are able to change one sleeve if there is damage in only cylinder. I dont see why they should not last a long time when the install is done right. Most of 944 blocks have some kind of bore damage after xx amount of millage, so the fix cost is at least 1000$ do the math i personaly would go with the Darton sleeves.

Just a thought.

Ski

Be aware that EVERY little pc of steel, all your solid dowels and roll pins will have to come out of the engine before sending it for the Nickasil process because it goes into an acid dip before.

We've done four sets of Tom C pistons, Arias manufacturer, and have had no issues at all. They're running in 3 2.5L cars and one 2.8L cars. The 2.8 car did experiment with Swain PC9 skirt coating and gold thermal coat. None of the cars to date, 3 years on two of them and 1.5 on the other two have reported any problems. One of those is our track car. Just passing on info and experience.

JAB Racing is experimenting with Light weight Mahle iron coated pistons but will not sell them or get them produced until we do the test mule engines. These pistons are lighter than factory and we need to run them to make sure that there will no minute vibration with regards to the lightened mass. The old iron coating was Ferrostan, no longer available due to environment. The new iron coating is called Ferroprint.

For sleeves right now, I think Chris White is the best with those, money well spent IMHO if you choose to go that route.

There were 13 sets of Mahle 100.5 OEM pistons available worldwide last month. 1 set in Atlanta, 12 in Germany. $1595 set plus ship.