danny951

I was going to send a PM, but thought maybe others would want to know this too and since TonyG is pretty much the expert regarding the K27 amont other things, I am seeking his advice.

My plan is to upgrade my '87 turbo (see my sig for mods) with a K27/6 and Vitesse's MAF and Piggy Back. My issues is that I can't afford to do this all at once. My questions is, in which order would you do this upgrade if you could only do it a piece at a time? Is it better to first upgrade the turbo? Would I really see any gains from upgrading to a 26/6 to 27/6 without any other changes? I don't want to buy chips just for the K27, and then have to turn around and get new chips when I get the MAF.

Sorry if these questions are redundant. I've been reading the forum a lot lately piecing together my upgrade plans, but still had these questions.

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this.

aeronautica86

I'm not the expert here on the matter, but I think it might be best to save up until you can buy all of it at the same time; if you buy the turbo now, you'll have to buy a chip to go with it, and then another when you buy the MAF/PB, and if you buy the MAF now with chips for the 26/6 you'll need a new chip for the 27/6, though I suppose you could just do a bunch of tweeking with the PB.

Jeremy Himsel

Very simple solution, buy the MAF now from Vitesse and have them program a split profile chip with one being the 26/6 MAF and the secondbeing the K27. That way you won't have to purchase anything twice and all you have to do is change a DIP swich on the chip when you install the K27.

gregeast

Danny: I am certainly not TonyG in terms of tuning experience with this setup but having recently done this conversion (as you know) I hope you don't mind if contribute.

Three possible scenarios as I see it:

1. K27/6 only - Not advisable, you really need different chips for the K27/6. You can stick with the stock AFM but you still need chips. In order to make the stock AFM work with the larger inlet on the K27 housing you will need to fabricate some kind of adpator for the J-boot. You'll be maxing out the stock injectors with this set up but it will work. Approximate cost: $600+shipping for K27/6 conversion of K26/6, Vitesse AFM K27/6 chip $445, 3bar FPR $60. TOTAL: $1205.

2. K27/6 & Vitesse MAF - This is a fairly straightforward solution, although you will need at least 55# injectors with this setup up. Vitesse's tuning is very good right out of the box. You don't 'need' the SMT-6, but it will help you optimize the setup up for your particular car.
- Advantages over AFM setup: Better throttle response, especially off boost, easier install, faster spool, future ability to tune.
- Approx cost: K27/6 $600, Vitesse MAF $1250, 55# injectors $325, 3bar FPR $60. TOTAL: $2250

3. K27/6, Vitesse MAF, SMT-6, injectors - This is of course the full boat solution, giving you all the plusses of solution #2 plus the tuneability of the SMT-6.
- Approx cost: K27/6 $600, Vitesse MAF $1250, 55# injectors $325, 3bar FPR $60, SMT-6 $650 TOTAL: $2900

My recommendation would be to save your pennies until you can buy the K27/6, Vitesse MAF and injectors. That setup will be a very broad smile on your face. Then, since there is no such thing as too much horsepower, when this setup starts to feel slow to you then get the SMT-6.

Or, as many I'm sure many will recommend, keep saving until you have another $1,000 and then do a Vitesse Stage II and injectors ($3600 Stage II + $325 injectors = $3965). I decided to spend that money on a Tial and an EBC instead but to each his own.

HTH

gregeast

Looks like Jeremy and I cross-posted, I like the idea of the MAF to start. I think John charges ~$100 for the extra image on the chip so assuming you can wait on the turbo this would be an excellent migration path as well.

brad-cam

Danny, I was faced with exactly the same decision process as you about a month ago. I picked up a K27/8 at a really good price and then was faced with the decision to install it with the AFM and get chips for it, or save my pennies. I chose the latter and basically went with Greg's option #3 (except with the K27/8 instead of K27/6) - a big chunk of change, but I'm so glad I did !

TonyG

Wheh...

I have run a K27/6 on an otherwise stock engine without setup problems. Yes you obvoiusly have to adapt the "J" pipe to fit, but as long as you are running stock boost, it works great.

And I have also run the K27/6 on a MAF/Chipped car with stock injectors using additional fuel pressure. This works good up to somewhere around just above 300RWHP.


But to answer your question, if it were me, I'd do the turbo first. Why? Because I like the feel of power to redline (no matter the power level). I don't like the feeling of the boost falling off. So even with an otherwise stock engine at stock boost levels, the differences are very noticable on the top end. And at least this way the foundation is set and the hard part is done.




TonyG

danny951

Thank you all for the responses. They are very detailed. I guess the answer is that doing the 27/6 without any chip modification is out of the question, even with the Guru chips I have now. That makes sense, but I thought maybe it was doable, just without the full benefit of the turbo. i thought I had read that Tony was seeing a typical 35+ hp gain by changing only the turbo, but I could be wrong.

I like the idea of getting the split image chip board from Vitesse but I think it is more cost effective to get the chps and MAF at the same time. I haven't priced the two individually, but I would think there was a package deal going on there (not sure). So, that leaves me with option #2, which I think is the best solution. I won't be able to purchase the turbo, injectors and MAF kit all at once though so that means I'll just have to leave the turbo and injectors on the shelf for a few months until I have the money for the MAF.

About the SMT-6: I understand that it helps tune the car more specifically (wideband required I'm sure) and get the most from the car, but don't some of the EBC's out there provide some of this functionality? I have an EBC and Tial on the list down the road so I am wondering if I would be able to skip the PB option.

Brad: Sounds like you are greatly enjoying your setup. I look forward to seeing any dyno graphs you get soon. Thanks for the help all and if TonyG sees this, perhaps he'll have even more insight for me.

danny951

Ah. Thanks Tony. So you would say that when I get the 27/6, I won't have to just leave it on the shelf even without upgrading the chips? That would be a big help because that means I could convert my existing 26/6 instead of buying a new one, and only have the car down for a couple weeks, vs. a few months. One thing, I wouldn't exactly say I am running stock boost. I have the 3 bar fuel pressure and am running 17psi (which typically drops to around 13-14 psi in the upper RPM rang. Would I need to drop the boost with the 27/6 since I'm guess there will be more air flow and more risk for running lean?

bearone

not necessarily true.

the po upgraded to the k27/6 when he did the motor/belts/wp/etc, as it needed a turbo and he didn't chip it or any other mods as he wanted to keep it close to stock.

he got it thru the shop where he was working and did his own work, rather than replace the k26/6, powerhaus pricing made for a nice upgrade.

it doesn't have the umph you get with the rest of the mods but he waxed a bunch of the neighborhood ricers anyway.

i've talked to a few who recognize the car.

JBrown

i am doing the upgrade and first wanted to do K27/6, injectors, and chips. after doing the research. I decided to go all the way . K27, 55lb injectors, visteese MAF, Greddy ebc, Tial 38mm waste gate. I am spending more than i wanted to but you only live once. I am getting it installed next thursday. I cant wait.

Mike1982

Right now I have Vitesse MAF, Chips Vitesse, 3-bar FPR, reliboost 16 psi, SMT-6, Tial 38mm, 3" cat bypass with some other upgrades. I want to upgrade to the K27/6 or K27/8 and injectors at the same time. The chips I got from John and he put on stock injector size and 55lb injector size. So, I would think that I can flip the switch, install injectors/turbo and head to the dyno to tune it then. Of course if I do that, I will change over to the two piece cross over pipe and wrap the headers to the turbo, so I should be able to pick up a couple RPM's sooner!!

njim3

I'm on the same boat.
First, i decide to go K27/6 for 6-700 ( but chip costs 495 from Vitesse)= 1200
Then, i changed my mind to go LR MAF and Mafter Burner for 1100 (There no chip reqires b4 or after you upgrade to K27/6) plus you can tune it by yourself. The K27/6 costs you 600 bucks. The total costs you 1600. you may get similar power.

Jim

aeronautica86

since you have guru chips tuned for an AFM, I suppose you could get the k27/6 and smt6 and tune for the new turbo with the PB, though that would probably take a whole lot of time/tuning, and then you could get the MAF with proper MAF chips later - it would be possible, but maybe more trouble than its worth