89 turbo dyno graphs
02-17-2006 | 08:06 PM
#91
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by lleroyb
Nize:
I have access to a remote temperature sensor/meter. We could clamp the sensor (a thermocople) to the waste pipe and watch the temperature while driving. It won't prove much but it would give some idea when the wastegate was dumping gas to the tail pipe.
Lou
I have access to a remote temperature sensor/meter. We could clamp the sensor (a thermocople) to the waste pipe and watch the temperature while driving. It won't prove much but it would give some idea when the wastegate was dumping gas to the tail pipe.
Lou
02-17-2006 | 08:08 PM
#92
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by streckfu's951
I can't imagine, under any circumstances, that happening. Are you assuming perfect turbo efficiency? There can only be so much exhaust gas moving through the turbine which means that the compressor can only spin so fast. How much exhaust volume and at what speed (RPMs) do you expect to put through the tubo to achieve 60psi? A 2.5 ltr spinning at 6k rpms is only moving so much air.
Because of this, the compressor is only going to move so much air. There will be a brief max boost pressure but there is no physical way the K26 will push 60psi on a 951. It's way out of its effiency range well before then.
Because of this, the compressor is only going to move so much air. There will be a brief max boost pressure but there is no physical way the K26 will push 60psi on a 951. It's way out of its effiency range well before then.
i'm saying it will overboost past the danger zone...
02-17-2006 | 08:11 PM
#93
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So what is the necessary effective spring rate of the stock WG to hold the valve closed with clamped control line? 30lbs/in? More?
If the spring is strong enough to hold the valve closed without any boost pressure from the manifold, how can it open when there is boost pressure applied. Since both are applied in the same direction, physically, there is little difference between them.
If the spring is strong enough to hold the valve closed without any boost pressure from the manifold, how can it open when there is boost pressure applied. Since both are applied in the same direction, physically, there is little difference between them.
02-17-2006 | 08:13 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by nize
i'm not saying specifically 60+psi
i'm saying it will overboost past the danger zone...
i'm saying it will overboost past the danger zone...
02-17-2006 | 08:31 PM
#95
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From: limbo....
Originally Posted by nize
then answer the simple questions;
how weak is 'pretty weak' ? where are your test results and data? how exactly did you perform these 'tests' ?
if you didn't actually perform any tests, that's fine.
if you don't have the data, that's fine too.
just try not to make any wild claims without proof nor repeatable results, and then try to accuse someone else of doing the same.
how weak is 'pretty weak' ? where are your test results and data? how exactly did you perform these 'tests' ?
if you didn't actually perform any tests, that's fine.
if you don't have the data, that's fine too.
just try not to make any wild claims without proof nor repeatable results, and then try to accuse someone else of doing the same.
this has NOTHING to do with intake pressure.
How much actual vehicle backpressure opened on your test, nize - or did you use something silly like an air compressor?
02-17-2006 | 08:42 PM
#96
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From: Tucson AZ, Dallas Tx sometimes
Originally Posted by nize
here's a question regarding the tial, what happens if you develop a vacuum leak and the 'control' line fails? since the tial wastegate will not open via any amount of exhaust pressure, will you spike to +60psi of boost?
You know imediatly something is not right.
I would be scared as **** if my car hit 25 psi on a regular basis.
I was also under the impression that all MBCs REPLACE the CV since it is then a duplicate system. Something odd is happening between the MBC and the CV. Get rid of one of them ad see what happens.
I'm just guessing but could pressure be getting trapped between the WG and one of the valves causing it to have higher cosing pressure than it should?
02-17-2006 | 08:50 PM
#98
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From: Tucson AZ, Dallas Tx sometimes
maybe he has a sticking WG. Sticking closed. that would give really high boost no matter what the boost setting is....then drop like a rock.
I'm just glad my head is O ringed and I have a wide fire head gasket. 25 psi is a lot on a k26. Arnt they just heat pumps after around 18 psi?
I'm just glad my head is O ringed and I have a wide fire head gasket. 25 psi is a lot on a k26. Arnt they just heat pumps after around 18 psi?
02-17-2006 | 09:00 PM
#99
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by streckfu's951
Not to be picky but you wrote 60psi a few times already. That's pretty specific. What's the danger vone then? Most of the time, on pump gas, above 18psi, induced knock.
my car regularly boosts to 21psi every single time without knock on pump gas.
02-17-2006 | 09:02 PM
#100
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by special tool
I already posted the average opening backpressure.
this has NOTHING to do with intake pressure.
How much actual vehicle backpressure opened on your test, nize - or did you use something silly like an air compressor?
this has NOTHING to do with intake pressure.
How much actual vehicle backpressure opened on your test, nize - or did you use something silly like an air compressor?
1) how weak is 'pretty weak' ?
2) where are your test results and data?
3) how exactly did you perform these 'tests' ?
02-17-2006 | 09:04 PM
#101
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by azmi951
maybe he has a sticking WG. Sticking closed. that would give really high boost no matter what the boost setting is....then drop like a rock.
I'm just glad my head is O ringed and I have a wide fire head gasket. 25 psi is a lot on a k26. Arnt they just heat pumps after around 18 psi?
I'm just glad my head is O ringed and I have a wide fire head gasket. 25 psi is a lot on a k26. Arnt they just heat pumps after around 18 psi?
02-17-2006 | 09:11 PM
#102
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From: limbo....
Originally Posted by nize
you still did not answer the simple questions. if you feel you've already answered them, feel free to quote yourself as i've apparantly missed your post. again, here are the simple questions;
1) how weak is 'pretty weak' ?
2) where are your test results and data?
3) how exactly did you perform these 'tests' ?
1) how weak is 'pretty weak' ?
2) where are your test results and data?
3) how exactly did you perform these 'tests' ?
I have a backpressure guage in my car.
The stock wastegate will open at 20 psi backpressure
I have made hundreds and hundreds of 951 datalogs.
And I have had a screen shot of my backpressure guage at boost as my avatar!
There is no secret that the 951 wastegate is very bad.
What kind of datalogger, management and guages do you use, Nize?
And more importantly, what turbocharger?
02-17-2006 | 09:14 PM
#103
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From: seattle, washington - usa
Originally Posted by special tool
Are you kidding?
I have a backpressure guage in my car.
The stock wastegate will open at 20 psi backpressure
I have made hundreds and hundreds of 951 datalogs.
There is no secret that the 951 wastegate is very bad.
What kind of datalogger, management and guages do you use, Nize?
And more importantly, what turbocharger?
I have a backpressure guage in my car.
The stock wastegate will open at 20 psi backpressure
I have made hundreds and hundreds of 951 datalogs.
There is no secret that the 951 wastegate is very bad.
What kind of datalogger, management and guages do you use, Nize?
And more importantly, what turbocharger?
02-17-2006 | 09:21 PM
#104
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From: limbo....
Dude - this is what I mean - I am NOT TALKING ABOUT INTAKE MANIFOLD PRESSURE!!!!!.
20 psi backpressure with a k26/6 stock head, cam and headers will be maybe 10-14 psi manifold pressure AT MOST!!!
And this is NOT LINEAR! The k26/6 efficiency drops as boost increases from this point - tremendously. Such that at 18 psi intake pressure, you will be close to 2.5:1 or 45 psi in the headers.
A few weeks ago I made a post about not tightening the -3 AN lines on my boost controller. It fell off and the boost pegged the Defi guage in my car (35-40 psi)
This is what a real wastegate does when you are negligent.
20 psi backpressure with a k26/6 stock head, cam and headers will be maybe 10-14 psi manifold pressure AT MOST!!!
And this is NOT LINEAR! The k26/6 efficiency drops as boost increases from this point - tremendously. Such that at 18 psi intake pressure, you will be close to 2.5:1 or 45 psi in the headers.
A few weeks ago I made a post about not tightening the -3 AN lines on my boost controller. It fell off and the boost pegged the Defi guage in my car (35-40 psi)
This is what a real wastegate does when you are negligent.
02-17-2006 | 11:09 PM
#105
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From: Vancouver, BC
You can test the spring pressure of the stock wastegate by running a vacuum (boost) line straight from the banjo bolt to the wategate, bypassing the CV. Without a boost controller or ball valve in the line, the boost pressure acts directly against the spring to open the wastegate.
A stock wastegate will open at 3 psi boost pressure. This is the 0.2 bar "overboost mode" that the KLR uses when a problem is detected; it just keeps the CV open. When I tested my shimmed stock wastegate on my 89, the wastegate opened at 6 psi boost pressure. The factory spring is pretty weak by design.
Jason tried the GURU wastegate (factory wastegate rebuilt by Danno with stiffer spring) on his 86 (my new car.) It didn't solve the problem of boost bleed at higher rpm. He then installed a 38 mm Tial and was much happier with it, as am I. Quicker spool and less boost bleed-off.
A stock wastegate will open at 3 psi boost pressure. This is the 0.2 bar "overboost mode" that the KLR uses when a problem is detected; it just keeps the CV open. When I tested my shimmed stock wastegate on my 89, the wastegate opened at 6 psi boost pressure. The factory spring is pretty weak by design.
Jason tried the GURU wastegate (factory wastegate rebuilt by Danno with stiffer spring) on his 86 (my new car.) It didn't solve the problem of boost bleed at higher rpm. He then installed a 38 mm Tial and was much happier with it, as am I. Quicker spool and less boost bleed-off.