Removing the stock rear hatch wing.
12-01-2005, 07:01 PM
#33
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put the 968 hatch trim on without the wing, that will give you the smooth look, then if you want to complete the wing you can buy an adjustable 968 wing or the factory piece to go on top of the trim.
12-01-2005, 08:19 PM
#34
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I was going to do the 968 turbo s ajustable but the trim is around 1300$ new from the dealer ship. I could not find another place that sells it new. I also could not find it used. On top of that the wing from AIR is 800$. By the time it is painted and installed it is 2500$ that is to much for some thing I only like the look of.
The wing looks better from other angles and with out the extra black piece. The one in the picture is 8" high, I will cut it down to as much as half of that, I can not tell until the cutting and fitting begins. I have left alot to the imagination by showing that picture. It might be hard to conceptualize but I think it will look good when lowered, I think the boxiness of it matches the car better than the 968 turbo s sides which I do not like. I will be interested in what people say about it when it is all done. If you look at the rest of my car, the wing will fit in with that styling, which I think is some what subtle, with an aggressive edge to it.
The wing looks better from other angles and with out the extra black piece. The one in the picture is 8" high, I will cut it down to as much as half of that, I can not tell until the cutting and fitting begins. I have left alot to the imagination by showing that picture. It might be hard to conceptualize but I think it will look good when lowered, I think the boxiness of it matches the car better than the 968 turbo s sides which I do not like. I will be interested in what people say about it when it is all done. If you look at the rest of my car, the wing will fit in with that styling, which I think is some what subtle, with an aggressive edge to it.
12-02-2005, 04:48 AM
#36
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12-02-2005, 10:08 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by MPD47
GT Racing sells the trim.
Dont be a ricer.
Dont be a ricer.
12-02-2005, 11:42 AM
#39
Race Director
The Spoiler on the back of the 944 and 951 is there for aero reasons.
Firstly it is not wing as there is no "leading edge". Therefore it is a spoiler.
It does no create downforce, but does act to reduce lift. Also I believe it actually improves aerodynamic efficicency. Reason is that allows the air to come of the back end of the in more efficient fashion. The rounded 924 rear end tends to cause more drag due to the way the air comes off the hatch area.
Also the basic design was added to the 924 Carrera GT when that competition model was created. It was retained for the 944 and 951 production models.
I even THINK the 931 had a smaller version of the rear spoiler.
In any event it does provide an important aero function.
Now the 944S/968 "Wing" is probably more efficient and that is why the change was made. Cleary the 968 Turbo RS adjustable wing is the most efficient rear hatch treatment Porsche made. It may not be ideal on a street car due to drag vs the stock 968 wing, but is better on the track.
Anything beyond that is either Rice or very expensive. Reason is that to improve on the 968 TRS Wing is possible, but you can't just slap on some "wing" and have it work. It takes development to find on that works to provide the right level of rear downforce & negative lift that is desired while minimizing drag. Not an easy thing to do really. In fact it one reason Porsche when with moving rear spoilers on the 964 and boxster. They needed a way to reduce rear axle lift, but minimize drag. It was and still is a complex solution to a complex issue. Most races are are not allowed moving aero devices so they have fixed wings. They do have the advantage of having a sole purpose that being to get around a track fast. So the factors balance in general more torward having large wing elements. Even so to get the right balance these are adjusted for each track and based on track conditions.
So 95% of wings on street cars are complete crap. Even factory wings. On Porsche's by contrast they are there for a purpose and have been engineering into the basic aero design or are put on the car to meet some form of racing homologation.
Firstly it is not wing as there is no "leading edge". Therefore it is a spoiler.
It does no create downforce, but does act to reduce lift. Also I believe it actually improves aerodynamic efficicency. Reason is that allows the air to come of the back end of the in more efficient fashion. The rounded 924 rear end tends to cause more drag due to the way the air comes off the hatch area.
Also the basic design was added to the 924 Carrera GT when that competition model was created. It was retained for the 944 and 951 production models.
I even THINK the 931 had a smaller version of the rear spoiler.
In any event it does provide an important aero function.
Now the 944S/968 "Wing" is probably more efficient and that is why the change was made. Cleary the 968 Turbo RS adjustable wing is the most efficient rear hatch treatment Porsche made. It may not be ideal on a street car due to drag vs the stock 968 wing, but is better on the track.
Anything beyond that is either Rice or very expensive. Reason is that to improve on the 968 TRS Wing is possible, but you can't just slap on some "wing" and have it work. It takes development to find on that works to provide the right level of rear downforce & negative lift that is desired while minimizing drag. Not an easy thing to do really. In fact it one reason Porsche when with moving rear spoilers on the 964 and boxster. They needed a way to reduce rear axle lift, but minimize drag. It was and still is a complex solution to a complex issue. Most races are are not allowed moving aero devices so they have fixed wings. They do have the advantage of having a sole purpose that being to get around a track fast. So the factors balance in general more torward having large wing elements. Even so to get the right balance these are adjusted for each track and based on track conditions.
So 95% of wings on street cars are complete crap. Even factory wings. On Porsche's by contrast they are there for a purpose and have been engineering into the basic aero design or are put on the car to meet some form of racing homologation.
12-02-2005, 01:53 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by M758
The Spoiler on the back of the 944 and 951 is there for aero reasons.
Also the basic design was added to the 924 Carrera GT when that competition model was created. It was retained for the 944 and 951 production models.
I even THINK the 931 had a smaller version of the rear spoiler.
Also the basic design was added to the 924 Carrera GT when that competition model was created. It was retained for the 944 and 951 production models.
I even THINK the 931 had a smaller version of the rear spoiler.
Joe, I completly agree with your statements on aerodynamics. I'm reading Joseph Kats book on racecar aerodynamics and I see the difficulty in devlopment of aero. Also there are a ton of design elements on the 944/951 that are condusive to reducing drag and lift.
12-02-2005, 02:33 PM
#43
Race Director
Originally Posted by 951TurboEuroSpec
IF i remember the 968 trim is not to expensive.
12-02-2005, 02:39 PM
#44
Race Director
Originally Posted by azmi951
I have been working on a buddies 931 and that spoiler is as far as I can tell the same as the 944. I looked closely since I thought they were different.
12-02-2005, 04:26 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by tifosiman
The trim on the 968/S2/late951 bridge spoiler is the same trim for the 968TRS spoiler. New from the factory the trim is prohibitively expensive. Fiberglass replicas of the trim from GT Racing is much cheaper and still looks good. I have the fiberglass trim on my hatch with my 968 bridge spoiler and you can't tell it isn't the real stuff unless you look real close or know a ton about these cars.