David Floyd

Kinda like standing next to a Top Fuel car

Bill

I agree with special tool. I use both Union 76 100 octaine race gas and toluene. My butt dyno definately notices improved performance with the touelene. And it is much easier to add toluene to a tank of pump fuel than it is to find pump race fuel.

I get toluene at almost any Sherwin Williams paint stores. I say "almost" because of a funny situation I encountered once, while trying to buy in Fairfield, CA. I entered the paint store and did not see "T". When I asked, the clerk said emphatically, "WE DO NOT SELL THAT PRODUCT HERE". After explaning what i planned to do with the T, he told me that T is used to manufacture some drug like meth (dont remember exactly, dont care). Evidently there was a major bust in Fairfield and the headlines in the local paper read "Meth lab busted, chemicals supplied by Fairfield Sherwin Williams" I left knowing that they would never order me some T.

If you choose to use T, remember one important note, T is nasty stuff. It will eat your rubber fuel lines. I have changed my lines with Earls wire braded teflon lines. The teflon lines will stand up to T, and for that matter, any of the nasties that the fuel companies are also putting in pump gas.

I use 3 gallons of T per fill up. I run 22psi of boost.

dlr944

Bill:

3 gallons of T mixed with 12 gallons of 93 oct is 97.2 oct. I understand this is a difficult questions but is it safe to run 22psi with only 97 oct?

Thanks!

Porsche-O-Phile

Mineral Spirits = high toluene content. It's hard to find in a "pure" form (I've tried several paint stores and home improvement places and have NEVER, ever come across a can (even a small one) labelled "Toluene". It's always part of something else, typically mineral spirits.

Xylene, OTOH is VERY easy to find on its own ("pure", in the can), labelled "Xylene".

Bill

dlr944,

I do not have a means of monitoring my knock sensor, but do I monitor my EGT. All is well there, and have no auditable knock on both the road or many dyno pulls. There is a lot of factors to detonation, fuel, timing, air charge temp, ve, turbo efficiency, hot spots, etc. I have tried to address all of these on my engine. I also do not track my car. My "serious" boost pulls are limited to an occasional right foot to the floor when the road is clear. I would never get the heat soak that occurs in track use.

If I were to track my car, I think you are correct. Prolonged boost levels of 22psi with any fuel addative would be dangerous, unless you spend F1 money. And of course, F1 engines are not expected to run 100,000 miles, as I do not expect of my car. I may use my car 1,500 miles a year. If it breaks, I fix it. I like tinkering and it is my toy. Much to my wifes chagrin.

toddk911

"areomatic" refers tothe fact that Toulene/Xylene are areomatic hydrocarbons, which means totally safe to run as fuel.

Actually, gasonline is almost all Toulene, and then they add all kinds of other additives to strretch it out and the lower the octane rating at your gas station means it simply has less Toulene in the gas.

And it seems now Xlylene is much easier to find then Toulene. I get it at Loews/home Depot, like 9.99 gallon and as stated Xylene gives you 4 more octane then Toulene.

"3 gallons of T mixed with 12 gallons of 93 oct is 97.2 oct. I understand this is a difficult questions but is it safe to run 22psi with only 97 oct?"

Depneds on his set up. If his car/chips are set for 18psi, then 22 would not really be dangerous. Figure on 2 octane per psi of boost. Assuming no intake cooling or timing changes are made.

toddk911

Correction, 3 octane needed per 2 psi aditional boost, as per Corkey Bell.

But if you want to be safe and eaiser math, then run 2 octane per 1psi

Bill

Agree. I have had headwork by Lindsey Racing. Intercooler by LR. Custom chip by Danno (Guru) with his laptop in my car on the dyno. I run less timing. NGK irridium spark plug with the wire electrode (less of a hot spot) and 1 step cooler range. I have no carbon on my piston tops. I have reduced intake and exhaust restrictions (no cat, larger ehaust piping, larger intake piping, K&N filter). Larger fuel pump. Larger fuel lines. Etc, Etc. Etc.

But what I do to and with my car, may or may not work for another. I am not interested in having it a daily driver or a race car. It is setup specifically for my use, my expectations. This is why information blindly obtained on rennlist, can work for some, and be desasterous for others.

KuHL 951

I just priced toulene at Sherwin-Williams 10 minutes ago...ain't no way I'm spending $14.85/gal. We can thank Katrina for the rise in solvent prices. I guess I'll leave it at 15 psi for tomorrow. With Cali 91 octane that works out to:
(18 gal x 91oct {$2.94 gal}) + (2 gal x 114oct{$14.85 gal})/20=93.3 octane or $4.43/gal, Homey don't think so!

Bill,
How much is Unocals race gas now down in the South Bay? We only have one station up here (Lincoln) and it's too far from me to make it worth it.

JE_951

This may be a dumb question, but can you put too much of either products into your engine and damage it? can large octane levels hurt engine made to run on lower levels? This is my first time ever hearing about this so im kinda interested in it.

Bill

Kuhl,

Sorry, but I don't really pay attention to price. That I leave up to my wife. I just spend until my allowance runs out. But I think Unocal 100 is about $4.50 per gallon. Go to their website, and they will list where the stations are that have 100. I think the last time I bought T it was around $40 for a 5 gallon can. You can get a fiver from KM, but the 1 gallon can is more expensive.

Mike S

Nope.....Unocal is now charging $5.99 a gallon for the 100 octane stuff. This is still cheaper than mixing toluene or xylene though.

schnellfahrer

So running T is NOT recommended with the stock fuel lines?
How about Xylene? Same thing?

ehall

I fla. I'm paying 4.99 for 100 octane Sunoco. It's probabaly lees now, as fuel prices have dropped about 30 cants a gallon. I was payin 3.25 for 93, so I' didn't really mind the jump to 4.99.

RolexNJ

I own a very big chain of home decorating/paint stores here in NJ. I'm very fortunate, for I have a lifetime of "unlimited" supply of xylene! But to date, I've never seen in 18 years a "T" marked on any can ever. And NJ has undergone some of the strictest VOC (volatile organic compound) regulations; so many companies already have reformulated these solvent type products. This "T" thing may be a CA thing, but I'm not sure. Also, I read somewhere on Rennlist that the most one should use is 10% per tank of gas. I do recall too that it can have an affect on the stock lines too. I would ask Special Tool more about this, for he usues this stuff like it's water!! And I know this for a fact too, for he has over 100 gallons of this rocket fuel on hand, ready for his car and mine.